Dustin Luther

I found them all to be bad as well. I created my own database in MS Access. It works perfect for me since it does just what I want and nothing extra.

I'm currently looking for a crm system and willing to pay $$$ for a good one. This news makes me not hopeful that I will find one

Ashley: That's impressive that you created your own CRM with Access. Based on the various options I've seen, that's probably one of the better solutions around! ;) But it's probably going to miss out on some of the options that would be so darn nice (like auto-capturing people when the search for homes on your site... and syncing with other contact databases.) Nonetheless, I find the conversation so interesting because the most common options all have such severe limitations

Auto-capturing would be nice but since the data works for me I can live without it. I don't pay anything for the service which is really nice. I know exactly how to pull out the information I need since I built it.

I was about to go to paper/pen but wanted to give tech one more try. I just had to DIY it.

I am surprise there aren't better CRM systems out there.

I've tried several systems. I now use Excel. It works for me. A system is only as good as how it is used. Simple is better.

we use the old fashioned pen and paper but just a little updated. We simply use a word document with a table to track calls, client meetings and follow-up needed. Seems to work better than any of the online stuff

Back in the day, I wrote my own in Approach, anybody remember the Approach Database? I still think it was smarter than Access.

But, that said, I kind of like old the old school pen and paper, too.

Because: A. Most times, it is faster to scribble some notes, than to open a program, navigate to right screen and type. ... See More

And B. In our business, there are just too many fuzzy variables; its just not possible to program options for each variable. And if you think you have, someone throws a new variable at you.

Dustin- It's the number one complaint I hear from clients in the industry and one of the top delegated processes in virtual assistance. Many use Outlook, with various plug-ins and custom fields, Top Producer can be clunky, funky and too complicated, and everything else stops short. Get on it Mr..we need solutions!

Don't trust your leads to a computer!

I'm genuinely fascinated by this discussion... For folks who are do a lot of internet marketing, I'm somewhat shocked by how much people rely on paper-and-pen... especially because it feels like it's missing the insight you can get from some of your most valuable leads (i.e. home searchers).

To give just one example, the broker who runs the ... See Morehome search on RCG has a pretty slick CRM... When someone registers (required after seeing 5 listings), then we're able to track all their home search activity on the site. That's also the same CRM he uses for all his other prospecting, so when he gets a email (lead) from an open house, he's able to have them all tracked in one place (as well as gauge how serious they are based on home search activity). I know I'm a geek at heart, but this just feels like such an obvious solution that I'm surprised to hear more people aren't doing something similar.

I can do all that tracking on the back end of my IDX. It just doesn't auto-populate into my database. Which while nice isn't critical for me. When I get an email I can pull up the IDX to see the history and then just log the last contact date in Access with any basic notes I might need.

I think for many of us using internet marketing the current CRM's don't do what we want so paper/pen is a fall back.

Perfect no but then no system is.

Dustin I can go further here than twitter... have tried wise agent and top producer, i think they do a lot of good things, but where they fail me is I dont use them the way they should be used. I have so many things I already log into every day that the one more thing to log into every day just never seems to take. What I have done is is create a ... See Morelead sheet with all the info needed on front and then keep notes on the back and file into a binder Jan-Dec and 1-31 so i put them into where I need to follow up. Once in escrow they get moved to escrow sheet which stays in front of book with all the things i need to do to be checked off and review those each morning first. As you know I am a tech/gadget junkie, but when it comes to this there is not anything easy enough to use yet that is convenient. If someone comes up with systems I am always willing to try. Would like an EASY system that can also be run from my phone. Integrating with google calendar and contacts would be awesome

Using Excel & HomeQuest currently, but looking at Heap, Sugar, HighRise, and SalesForce Sm. Biz

But in addition... i do have a database (wise agent) for my past clients and sphere

HomeQuest has a good backend but it is a lead management system, not a full blown CRM system.

Most who uses HomeQuest (and all other IDX systems) will use another system, whether paper or digital, to manage their current and past clients.

HomeQuest is good at helping you see who your hot IDX prospects are, which is super valuable, but that's just the beginning and one small part of the relationship that needs to be managed.

What do you use John for day to day lead management

Totally agreed John... I was actually talking with Garron about that recently in terms of what could we do to make it even more useful from a CRM perspective, but you're totally right that I should have said lead management tool in my previous comments and not tried to shorten it to CRM.

Ron: I've tried most of those tools (Heap, HighRise, ... See MoreSalesForce), but never found it particularly useful.

Dean: What you're talking about makes perfect sense... and agree that the sync with contacts and calendar would be so darn useful.

I am currently testing BatchBook (and really like the flexibility of SuperTags): http://www.batchblue.com/realestate/

Dustin...there is an interesting dynamic that is going around right now. Too many people are talking about lead management but I personally feel that the question should be broken down a little further. Are you interested in Lead Generation, Lead Incubation or Lead Distribution? Many companies/agents are talking about lead distribution but are ... See Moreforgetting that if you can not generate the lead you will have nothing to distribute. All three variables come with it's own strategy and road map. We are in the midst of building a lead distribution system but have the first two variables nailed down. www.RealtySitesPlus.com Cheers TLC

Awesome conversation!

Our office keeps track of leads we distribute with Excel. It's nothing fancy, but it works for us, mainly because we don't get a hundred leads a day.

Volume is the determinant of how we track. If we were getting 100 leads a day, excel would be gone - fast.... See More

I don't think it would be wrong to have multiple "ideal systems"... based on volume. For light lead generation we want something as quick and simple as excel. When we start to overload our lead manager it'll be time to switch to something more robust. Cross that bridge when we get to it.

Maybe that's why so many of the existing systems fall short, they are built to be scalable - which makes them clunky, funky and too complicated.

Dean, I tried 5 CRMs between the summer of 2008 and spring 2009. I have one now (non real estate) that I feel could work well for me personally BUT it required months (no kidding, months) of customization so I wouldn't recommend it. And it still needs a lot more customization. I won't recommend it because I thought all 5 CRMs I tried would be ... See Moregreat but once I started using them, I'd find their shortcomings (after enormous efforts bringing in the data). It will be several months at least before I know if it is a success or whether I am crazy.

Very interesting. I think the way to go about this is to focus on the agents existing workflow and build the CRM to match the agents existing activity rather than try to build out a set of functionalities. That is why Homequest works so well in the area of IDX/client searching listings area. taking the same approach with farming, open houses, sphere relationship, door knocking, etc would be a really interesting project. I think we should prototype it with the M agents.

Systems are created to be scalable, otherwise what's the point of creating one. The lack of quality is a different subjects and it more speaks of the poor understanding of the specifics of the business processes by the developers than anything else...

I think lead management is crucial, and it should be a base of any business - just like a calendar. Calendar is a system - it was created to make things easier, consistent and it's very precise.

First of all - there are no perfect systems out there. Why? Because they weren't built by the flow of your business processes specifically. Mostly you'll have to adjust to the system in order to use it. It's a totally different thing if you have the resources to built one yourself.... See More

If you're an organized person and tend to keep your records straight, using schedules (not keeping things in your head) etc. - you could greatly benefit from a thought through system that actually helps you to stay organized, better serve your clients and generate more income for you. Not complicate the hell out of your working routine.

On the other hand, if you're not very organized - don't have specific goals and usually come up with things to do as you go - you probably won't stick to any system, no matter how good it it... it's just against your nature :)

I think everyone should come up with a flow chart of your business processes - from obtaining a lead, going through the follow up process and communication, actual work with the client, closing of the transaction and post transaction actions to retain your past clients and build your referral base. By segmenting your business processes you can create a chainable workflow. Based on that you can build a system yourself, or select one that fits your workflow the best.

A system like that allows you to be consistent in your actions and be in control of the business processes - not chaotic from day to day figuring out what's next.

Systems are not perfect, but because they allow you to be consistent, it's easier to measure your productivity and make improvements to your workflow as well as the system itself. With electronic system you can measure performance of each segment of your workflow and tailor it to maximum proficiency and conversion. Can you do that with the paper systems? I know some of you have been doing this for decades, you grand parents probably were doing it in similar way and were pretty successful, but with the technology world is faster - the processes are faster as well as their execution by your competitors. Think Zappos that makes purchase deliveries in 8 hours or FedEx that delivers overnight to any country in the World. I'm sure they spent a lot of time figuring out their objectives, and creating a perfect workflow to provide excellent service to their clients and be not only competitive, but actually lead the way. Do you think they can afford a lousy system or "what's next" type of mentality?

Looks like I got a carried away, a litte bit :) BTW, we at PhoenixHomes.com built our own lead generation/management system in-house - it's not perfect, but it's a foundation of our business and we constantly working on its improvement. It allows us to stay in control and keep hiring new agents ;)

Took me awhile to write my post and I just read Garron Selliken's - totally agree with you. The system needs to be created on the existing workflow and if you don't have one - you should start outlining it first, and only then build a system based on it.

Great discussion. Struggled with this one for years (commenting so I'll get pinged when someone posts *the* answer :-).

Garon and Max have it right. I've played with several of the simpler contact mgmt. cloud systems like highrise, saleforce (contact mngr), and heap.... at the end of the day it seems that there are some good solutions out there that all need to be tweaked to work with whatever workflow an agent has designed for him or herself. Having a system that's simple to start with is key IMHO.

I'm probably more geeky than most Brokers, i.e., first on the Internet and all, but when the electric goes off and your battery's dead and the Internet is down -- and then the client calls -- you'll be relieved that you wrote down his info on parchment.

Peggy I hear what you are saying but the sprinklers go off and wet your paper so you cant read it etc etc... Every system has it break down points. I would LOVE and electronic system that was easy and could integrate with all the other electronic systems that I already use, not one that requires me to use another calendar and another to do list, ... See Moregive me something that is easy, cloud based and syncs with google and I am in... until then i am staying with my binder and lead sheets and escrow sheets

wow - sprinklers on, lights out, Bin Laden comes - no businesses, no clients :) Do you guys keep your money in the bank or under the mattress? LOL (pardon my afternoon humor)

Dean I hear you. Sometimes in our hectic lifes we make somethings too complex and we have to use the KISS principle. Being a techie junkie for years. I have to ask ..What am I trying to accomplish? Is KISS doing that?

What an awesome conversation today... Thanks Terry, Phil, Max, Garron, Brad, Peggy, John, Dean and everyone else who's contributing. I'm learning a ton! and in particular, a ton about ways to think about solving the pain points around lead management.

I know I have a totally different workflow than a typical agent, but I thought it might be ... See Moreinteresting to mention what I use. I'm using a google spreadsheet with the following fields: Follow up, Priority, Type, Category, Project, Task, and Notes. Like paper-and-pen, it's not perfect, and it's in no way automated, but at least it allows me (and my small team) to track and prioritize projects and opportunities.

for google peeps, http://crm.zoho.com and http://manymoon.com may be worth looking into depending on your taste - both play nice with Google and apps. as does http://www.gqueues.com/ which is GREAT for task mgmt that you want synch with Gcal.

The KISS system rocks, guys: Keep It Simple, Stupid! I am done, done, so VERY done with "feeding" little applications and gadgets with data. Feelin' so human when we go one-on-one; it's what the clients want!

A long time ago, when I programmed, I learned the difference between data entry and programming. Data clerk is not, and never has been, my title!

Brad: I can see you've been looking into some of the more interesting solutions... the many moon solutions looks particularly interesting for one of my projects, but I'm not seeing a solution that looks particularly useful for agents. What do you use around for your real estate biz?

Yea the gqueses has possibilities, but not there yet

primarily for RE I'm still a Highrise + gmail + Gdocs. nothing else looks good enough (for me) to draw me away... though my wife has been doing a lot of work with Salesforce lately and just attended the Cloudforce conference in SF. I will be looking into a more robust app with them when I can make the time.

another note: we had a session dedicated to CRM for Real Estate at RE barcamp OC which had a similar tone to this thread. it's a great discussion topic for sure. Thanks all.

As far as simple but strong enough the best i have used yet is wise agent, my problems with them are i want a way to combine the calendar and contacts into google because i dont want another calendar etc.. and they need a mobile app

Dean: I looked into the gqueses and it seems to be just a tool that puts a pretty face on google's tasks... I found wise agent to be a bit more interesting, but their website is pretty sparse to say the least. And it seems like any CRM that "requires" web access should have a mobile tool (or better yet, great sync), which as you say, appears to ... See Morebe missing.

Brad: As someone who's played around with more than a few of these tools, your experience is obviously more than interesting. Seeing as how you're using a few different google tools, and it is a google world, it sure would be an interesting play if google improved upon their contacts and made it a bit easier to build new tools on top of it... Great stuff all around.

seems to me that any good system, whether pen and paper or tech based, requires good checklists - why don't we share some of our best checklists (CRM, lead workflow, escrow workflow, etc.)? Or is there already a good set of checklists online in some wiki somewhere?

I usually run through Bento, since I can sync between my computer and iPhone.

Dustin, there is a local company who is building (working on it) a program for real estate exactly like what we are talking about. A couple of us agents are meeting with them on Monday to talk about exactly what we are looking for. It seems most of us want simple, syncs easily with other things like Google and able to access it mobile (cloud based... See More). The balance to be struck is between simple and strong enough or flexible enough to have powerful tools that can be added. So any thoughts on that by anyone shoot them over before monday will be checking this thread