Guy Gentner: Response to Bill 21 - Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act
Response to Bill 21 - Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act
To watch video (between 22:19 - 52:00):
http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansa
To read transcript from Hansard:
http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansa
2009 Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament
HOUSE BLUES
__________________________
This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
__________________________
DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
(HANSARD)
__________________________
HOUSE BLUES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2009
Morning Sitting
__________________________
Second Reading of Bills
BILL 21— AMBULANCE SERVICES
COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT ACT
(continued)
G. Gentner: I rise to speak relative, of course, to Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I begin my comments premised on my childhood. I have to think about, you know, those early years of my life, what kids did and how they played. You know, we would act out those jobs that represented our heroes. Many of us wanted to grow up to be a firefighter, others thought we'd be a police officer, and there were some of us who acted out the idea of being an ambulance driver or being a paramedic working for the Ambulance Service. It was kind of good play, but it went to show that in my childhood, being a lifesaver was something that was dear to all of us. It was respected. They were the heroes, hon. Speaker. They were the heroes that a child aspired to and wanted to grow up to become. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is concerning to me that here we are today after, I'd have to say, four years of mistreatment, I believe, from this government — at least four years, on how they've been dealing with this issue. Of course, it all started in many ways with Bill 29 — there's a relationship to Bills 29 and 21 — and how this government with its heavy hand came down on all health care workers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
How did this all begin? We had a great legacy. It really began many years ago with Tommy Douglas, who years ago in the '40s and '50s reconstituted and reorganized an ambulance system within his own province. They created an air ambulance, and it was something very novel, inventive and ingenious that the rest of North America was watching. He was able to consolidate and put together a triage that worked effectively, and it was the model that all other governments were aspiring towards. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Of course, in the '70s, we had a very progressive government led by one Dave Barrett, and Dave Barrett reorganized and put together the Ambulance Service itself, and that was a government that looked at the pitfalls of privatization, what happens when you don't have a public entity that could work triage and work all the emergency care systems together. Here we are today, and it seems to me that there's been an erosion of the health care system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1025]
It also begins from your doorstep — preventative, but a doorstep — when you're in the unfortunate position or situation where you've called upon those first care responders. You put, literally, your life and limb on hold, in a situation where it's dependent on the good work of those heroes, those heroes that all of us had aspired to become when we were little children. You know, there [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 006/DAG/1025
and your limb on hold. It's a situation where it's dependent on the good work of those heroes, those heroes that all of us had aspired to become when we were little children. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can get very emotional on this issue, and I'm going to try and stick to a script, because I can get off focus on this one in so many ways — the emotions in the letters I have received very recently. But there are so many issues in this province that come and go politically and that have a lasting impact on our social fabric. I believe Bill 21 is one. It's a bellwether of more to come, of what this government represents. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, this Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act, is really, I believe, the employer's thug bill, because it's a big stick. You take it, and you have no recourse. In fact, it's a bill that is about to set the clock back on labour relations in this province. We are going backwards. It is a position that…. I call it a big stick. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We saw with Bill 29, when this government took control, a position that changed a long-standing relationship, a good working relationship, with working people, the labour movement, unions and those who really were giving their lives, giving their worth and jeopardizing their lives, whether it be health care workers, nurses — and above all, of course, the paramedics, who are the front line. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They were literally giving their time, their effort and perhaps their lives within a livelihood that is now suddenly shaken. It's being destroyed by something that I believe is very arrogant and pretentious. I think arrogant is a very soft word for this piece of legislation — in my estimation. I mean, it is only a brute with a big stick that would put forward such an onerous bill. That is what we are seeing here today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is what Bill 29 was: the kill the health employees union act — when this government first took over. It was scornful of the relationship over the years, the development that we had with labour and management and the understanding of collective bargaining, a proud history we built in this province that is now being destroyed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's now suddenly ripped apart, just like what was attempted with Bill 29, as though some scrap of paper…. A social fabric, a social contract has been put together — so many toilful long years on picket lines in this province — built on a social and labour history where many people…. In fact, some people gave up their lives — when you talk about the mining industry and what happened on Vancouver Island many years ago. It's a long litany to get here, and here we have today a situation where it's all for naught. Here we are again now with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, the government had to eat crow with Bill 29. It had to repeal sections of Bill 29 that prohibited those collective agreements from including provisions that seek the limit and restrict or in any way regulate the contracting out of non-clinical services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have no doubt in my mind that this is where this government would love to go: contracting out ambulatory services in small towns. It's almost like they're looking forward to perhaps a post office…. The post master would be a multitude of many things, and the postmaster, probably, in a small hamlet would also have an old beat-up car and run around and pick people up and submit his invoices whenever he was called upon. We have to ask ourselves, of course: what does that mean when it comes to training? I want to talk about that as well. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1030]
It took many years to put together an argument, and I'm happy to say that Bill 29 did go to the courts. It went before the courts, and the Supreme Court of Canada in June 2007 ruled parts of Bill 29 illegal and established collective bargaining as a right protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights. It's enshrined [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 007/ACR/1030
Bill 29 illegal, and established collective bargaining as a right — as a right protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights. It's enshrined. Every chance this government has, it's going to test it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This Bill 21, I believe, is a fundamental shift that, in its hastiness and almost belittling attempt on the paramedics of British Columbia.... I believe it's somewhat contemptuous, and that is what Bill 21, I really think, is all about. That is why it's important to address the aspects of Bill 21 — which does not try and reconcile, if you will. It is somewhat representative of a government that's conceited, big-headed, selfish. That is what we see in Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We've witnessed the untruthfulness of this government before the election — the promise that there would be a smaller debt and it mushroomed by three to four times. We heard the aspect that there would be no HST, and after the election — here we go — there it is. It's this deceitfulness, the falsehood where it said one thing during the election and did something very different after the election. And here we are again with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On that side, there's no credibility or trust by the people of British Columbia and certainly by those who are on the front line of delivering our emergency services. And now we have this propaganda or distrust enshrined in this Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We can look right at its title. Let's look at its title. Right from its title it's called the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act — collective agreement act. Can you believe that they would come up with the audacity to refer to it as a collective agreement? This is an absolute sham. This is imposing the will of the employer on to the employee. They have the audacity.... [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We talked about, of course, this deceitfulness that we've seen from this government, the way to gloss things over, and right there on the bill — the title, the subject — there it is: collective agreement act. What a farce. It's an absolute sham. It's trickery, and only the B.C. Liberal government would come up with the audacity to call it that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What a collective agreement. There's no collective agreement here. Collective? Not. It's forcing, again, the will of the employer over a defenceless group of citizens who are there for you and me. They should be held in the highest regard, the pedestal of our employees in this province, and they are completely tossing about as though they're a ragbag of disposable entities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This bill is absolutely outrageous — absolutely outrageous. Collective bargaining is sitting down and working out your differences. It's not running around with a piece of paper and saying: "We're calling it collective bargaining. We're calling it a collective agreement." It's about negotiating. It's about what makes this province wonderful — to sit together and work our differences out and continue to deliver the services that the people of British Columbia need. That's the nature of collective bargaining. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is also the nature of parliamentary democracy itself, a system where we sit around and yes, there are amendments and yes, there are times listening to the opposition. Above all, you listen to those you're about to hurt the most — those who have mortgages, those who, in my estimation, should be seen as the highest esteemed of the province in the delivery of our health care systems. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is a government that believes in conflict. I believe it should be the other way around. It should be about open discussion, something that's transparent, something we can sit down and work out with people. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But that it what Bill 21 is doing: it's here to rip apart that decent way of dealing with our differences in a collective bargaining scenario. Collective agreement act? Agreement? Where's the agreement? There's no agreement here. None. Nada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1035]
I'll tell you what the agreement really is all about. It's about the inability of this government, that cannot bargain in good faith. That is what this agreement [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 008/LCG/1035
agreement? Where is the agreement? There's no agreement here — none; nada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'll tell you what the agreement is really all about. It's about the inability of this government, which cannot bargain in good faith. That is what this agreement's all about. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's interesting. We recently discovered, thanks to the good member — our Labour critic here, the MLA for Burnaby-Edmonds — who exposed the marching orders from VANOC that are forcing the hands of our paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
An agreement is a contract, but I have to ask you: "What contract?" There's no contract here. This is not a contract. This is a major dispute, and there is no agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Just on the title alone, this falsehood, the B.C. Liberal government is making, I believe, a mockery of the process of collective bargaining. They are absolutely deliberately rubbing salt in the wounds of our working people. That is what this bill is all about. It is a vicious, malicious act. There's no other way to call it. And what a joke. Any rightful-minded citizen will call it the "big stick act." That is what it is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The members on the other side don't get it. They jeer the working people. They hold them in contempt. And the hold our paramedic of this province in such a disdainful and disrespectful view. I just don't understand it. I'll be honest. This is how they view the world. They are the captains of industry, and everyone else must come cap in hand. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We see all the bureaucrats and the benefits, the bonuses, the Crown corp executives get. We can talk about all the wonderful tickets we're going to see passed out to friends and insiders for VANOC. Of course, we're talking about the Olympics and all the great venues. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
And we know what our paramedics will be doing. Yes, they will be doing their best for the Olympics, and yes, they deserve an opportunity to put their message and their case forward. When you think of public health and safety, isn't that what the Olympics should be built on — that kind of security? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We know they don't care about working conditions. We can talk about working…. You've heard it here before. I think of the hours and hours. The moments where I've talked to paramedics…. They're running every which way. We have the statistics to show where there are various garages. In my area in North Delta there are 41 calls a day, just in my area alone. The working conditions… [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I couldn't do that job. I couldn't. When I was a child I thought I could. I had a different job a while back, and I used to see some of the stuff that's on the road, and how they can do it is beyond me. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government doesn't care about their working conditions or decent wages. I don't think they care about pensions or better health care for all or equity in this province — where we're all treated equally. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. Speaker, I don't think they care about you or me, your family, and they certainly don't care about the paramedics of the province of British Columbia. They don't care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This was the vindictive nature of the government of its day. This is the vindictive nature. It was very clear upon winning the election that they don't care. They say one thing, and they do something else. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are workers who are willing to risk their lives for you and me. They should be held in the highest esteem. They are our heroes. But the pompousness and the rashness of this government turns its back on them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can tell you that on this side we are willing to stand up for the fundamental rights of workers in collective bargaining in the province of B.C. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So what's in a name? Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. Collective agreement act. It has as much credibility as what happened in the implementation of Bill 29. It, too, masqueraded itself as something different. It was called the Health and Social Services Delivery Improvement Act. Well, improvement it did not do. Another untruth. But it mimicked what was to come. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1040]
Here we are seven years later. How this Liberal government tries to gloss over its dirty deeds. The shoddy mess took us [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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But you know in a minute what was to come. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here we are seven years later. How this Liberal government tries to gloss over its dirty deeds. The shoddy mess took us to the Supreme Court — a national embarrassment, a national disgrace, if you will. B.C. was once the proudest province of some of the most progressive collective bargaining processes and legislation in Canada. Now we are the laughingstock. It's all this sneakiness that comes to mind. All the sneakiness of how they implement this nefarious type of legislation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Friday nights are a typical example of how they try to sneak it through. The press releases, you know, and here we are. We'll probably see the same type of sneakiness during the Olympics. Everybody will be out with their tickets while attentions will be elsewhere and the midnight oil will be burning over there. Some of their specialized hit teams will be with their hired guns finding another way to screw the working person. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Would you be careful of your use of language. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: I'm sorry. I withdraw, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
How they demoralize and upset the people of the province, those who work for a living. That's what's going to happen. Keep your ears to the ground, because we're going to see more Bill 21s being invented while everybody else is celebrating the games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You can watch the Premier smiling like some Suharto, waving at the crowds, and the OICs — the orders-in-council — will keep churning out. That's how they work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But I've got to ask the question: why won't the Liberal MLAs stand up now to a very arrogant Premier. Why don't they stand up and put their life-saving paramedics before the despot? Stand up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Where is Carole Taylor when you need her most? I had respect for, but I had great disagreements with, the then-Finance Minister. TILMA — I could go on and on. But she came up with a $6 billion package that included signing bonuses to public sector workers, ensuring labour peace and security through the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Where is former Minister Olga Ilich. No wonder the moderates, if you want to call them that, left. The extreme right over there is in control. There is not one MLA who is willing to stand up. Stand up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the boss finally walks into your caucus room, I'm sure the henchmen slink their way into the room and stare for any discontentment. They're frightened over there. They're not going to stand up for the workers or the people of the province. They're going to let a special group of people within cabinet dictate to them what it's all about. It's about their friends, insiders and corporatism. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's no real small-l liberal left over there. This government is exposed for what it really is. This Bill 21 clearly demonstrates that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We know what happens when you basically shake your head and get in line with what's going on with the extreme right wing over there. Just ask the former Attorney General. For four years he ducked; he hid. "It's before the courts. It's before the courts." And where is Wally Oppal now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: I'd remind you that we are talking about Bill 21. We are on second reading of Bill 21. So I would ask you to discuss that bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: Absolutely, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's what Bill 21 brings to mind. Bill 21 comes to mind how those members are unwilling to stand up. An apologist will get you nowhere. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's no improvement in this bill here at all. It's going to create great chaos. It's bombastic. I think it's brassy. It's shameless. It's a condescending view of a government over those who are trying to fetter out a better way of life — a better and decent wage. They deserve better than what this government is offering. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1045]
How can anyone over there sit and agree with this Bill 21? Many of them will turn their backs as we speak here. Many will somehow shut down their ears. They don't want to listen to it. They don't want at all to hear what's going on. They're part of the jet set [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 010/JBP/1045
many of them will turn their back as we speak here. Many will somehow shut down their ears. They don't want to listen to it. They don't want at all to hear what's going on. They're part of the jet set, will fly around, spend lots of money for parades and everything else — hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they still through it will turn their back to what's happening in this room here, with total disrespect to the paramedics and people working in this Health Ministry. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, it sums up this government to a T. It does — the arrogance. Bill 21 strips the union of its right to negotiate. It still amazes me today that this government has the audacity and thoughtlessness to think that it can get away with it, that they can somehow…. I don't know how to suggest it, and correct me if you have to, hon. Speaker, but they think they can just sort of goose-step their way over anything that tramples over people's rights. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government had recanted its Bill 29. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
Deputy Speaker: Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. B. Penner: Point of order. The member knows the bounds of the debate, and he is clearly exceeding them with his ridiculous comments. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: I withdraw that, hon. Speaker. Government thinks it can march its way — it can march its way. I won't describe the type of marching. But they can continue and stomp their way over rights people have held very dear in this province. If there was no Charter in this country, constitutional rights in this country, where would we be with this government? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government would continue to rip and tear collective agreements apart like never before at its own convenience and, of course, for their friends. I don't think they've learned a thing since they had to recant Bill 29. It's quite obvious here with this legislation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know that the government opposite doesn't believe in the notion of security for the workplace, which builds a strong community, knowing you're going to be there, not having to uplift your family at a whim of a government and try and find schooling somewhere else, go into a new community because the job's no longer there. That security, that stability, is an instrument that government should be upholding, and they're ripping it apart with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Stability, I believe, is what the Olympics…. It's what the government uses as its flagship. It's there for the future. It's there for stimulus. It's there for our security. There's no security with this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Unlike Carole Taylor, this group couldn't negotiate a dust-off at a preschool birthday party. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
G. Gentner: Deep thoughts indeed. They're deep thoughts, because I harken back to when I was a child. As a child…. Even today, I still hold the paramedics in this province with the high esteem that most people should be holding them or looking at them with. They should deserve that kind of respect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, we can talk about the recruitment that goes in, the disease, the germs, the horrific situations. They deal with severed arms, accidents. They witness accidents that most of us would never get over, and there's all the stress and the high suicide rates that go with that job. And they've got to be defused. Those services are not being provided. When you are involved with that type of stress-related job…. There's more related stress than for most of us, certainly most of us in this room. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In recruitment, in the absence of long-term training, there's a need for retention of that training. It's no longer there. It's reflected in the increasing frequency of remote stations. They've got to move back and forth — a lack of staff. It goes on and on. Let's not talk about the care they provide at hospitals, when we've seen the complete collapse of acute care hospitals and emergency systems and a province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Who's there to care for you in the hallways — the hallway medicine created by this government? It's the paramedic. We're so far behind that instead of getting back on the road, our paramedics have got to stay with their emergency patient. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1050]
These are self-starters. They have a work ethic, but I want to end with the notion about morale. You know [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 011/AGE/1050
our paramedics have got to stay with their emergency patient. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, these are self-starters. They have a work ethic. But I want to end with a notion about morale. This is a type of job that when you lose morale, you lose everything, because not only is it a system of caring for those who are in dire need; it is a system whereby you count on the team. You're dealing with triage, call systems. You count on that team. When morale is gone and it's dissipated because of an uncaring government — it does not respect them — it's a system that fails. It fails. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have to tell you, it's a download, also, on municipal government. When you don't have the proper paramedic systems in place and the ambulatory systems, it's up to our firefighters to be the first responders. That's another example of downloading by this government, by the uncertainty created by Bill 21 and the lack to have bargained in good faith. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm going to conclude with those remarks, and I have to tell you again that I believe in a province that believes in collective agreements. I believe in a province whereby people are treated with equal rights. I believe in a province that believes that care for our citizens should be above all other needs, all other needs. I believe in a compassionate province that believes in people and cares for people. I don't believe in a province that puts certain friends and corporate interests ahead of the general population of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansa
To read transcript from Hansard:
http://www.leg.bc.ca/hansa
2009 Legislative Session: First Session, 39th Parliament
HOUSE BLUES
__________________________
This is a DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY of debate in one sitting of the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. This transcript is subject to corrections, and will be replaced by the final, official Hansard report. Use of this transcript, other than in the legislative precinct, is not protected by parliamentary privilege, and public attribution of any of the debate as transcribed here could entail legal liability.
__________________________
DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY
(HANSARD)
__________________________
HOUSE BLUES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2009
Morning Sitting
__________________________
Second Reading of Bills
BILL 21— AMBULANCE SERVICES
COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT ACT
(continued)
G. Gentner: I rise to speak relative, of course, to Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I begin my comments premised on my childhood. I have to think about, you know, those early years of my life, what kids did and how they played. You know, we would act out those jobs that represented our heroes. Many of us wanted to grow up to be a firefighter, others thought we'd be a police officer, and there were some of us who acted out the idea of being an ambulance driver or being a paramedic working for the Ambulance Service. It was kind of good play, but it went to show that in my childhood, being a lifesaver was something that was dear to all of us. It was respected. They were the heroes, hon. Speaker. They were the heroes that a child aspired to and wanted to grow up to become. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It is concerning to me that here we are today after, I'd have to say, four years of mistreatment, I believe, from this government — at least four years, on how they've been dealing with this issue. Of course, it all started in many ways with Bill 29 — there's a relationship to Bills 29 and 21 — and how this government with its heavy hand came down on all health care workers. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
How did this all begin? We had a great legacy. It really began many years ago with Tommy Douglas, who years ago in the '40s and '50s reconstituted and reorganized an ambulance system within his own province. They created an air ambulance, and it was something very novel, inventive and ingenious that the rest of North America was watching. He was able to consolidate and put together a triage that worked effectively, and it was the model that all other governments were aspiring towards. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Of course, in the '70s, we had a very progressive government led by one Dave Barrett, and Dave Barrett reorganized and put together the Ambulance Service itself, and that was a government that looked at the pitfalls of privatization, what happens when you don't have a public entity that could work triage and work all the emergency care systems together. Here we are today, and it seems to me that there's been an erosion of the health care system. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1025]
It also begins from your doorstep — preventative, but a doorstep — when you're in the unfortunate position or situation where you've called upon those first care responders. You put, literally, your life and limb on hold, in a situation where it's dependent on the good work of those heroes, those heroes that all of us had aspired to become when we were little children. You know, there [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
HSA - 20091105 AM 006/DAG/1025
and your limb on hold. It's a situation where it's dependent on the good work of those heroes, those heroes that all of us had aspired to become when we were little children. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can get very emotional on this issue, and I'm going to try and stick to a script, because I can get off focus on this one in so many ways — the emotions in the letters I have received very recently. But there are so many issues in this province that come and go politically and that have a lasting impact on our social fabric. I believe Bill 21 is one. It's a bellwether of more to come, of what this government represents. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In fact, this Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act, is really, I believe, the employer's thug bill, because it's a big stick. You take it, and you have no recourse. In fact, it's a bill that is about to set the clock back on labour relations in this province. We are going backwards. It is a position that…. I call it a big stick. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We saw with Bill 29, when this government took control, a position that changed a long-standing relationship, a good working relationship, with working people, the labour movement, unions and those who really were giving their lives, giving their worth and jeopardizing their lives, whether it be health care workers, nurses — and above all, of course, the paramedics, who are the front line. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
They were literally giving their time, their effort and perhaps their lives within a livelihood that is now suddenly shaken. It's being destroyed by something that I believe is very arrogant and pretentious. I think arrogant is a very soft word for this piece of legislation — in my estimation. I mean, it is only a brute with a big stick that would put forward such an onerous bill. That is what we are seeing here today. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is what Bill 29 was: the kill the health employees union act — when this government first took over. It was scornful of the relationship over the years, the development that we had with labour and management and the understanding of collective bargaining, a proud history we built in this province that is now being destroyed. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's now suddenly ripped apart, just like what was attempted with Bill 29, as though some scrap of paper…. A social fabric, a social contract has been put together — so many toilful long years on picket lines in this province — built on a social and labour history where many people…. In fact, some people gave up their lives — when you talk about the mining industry and what happened on Vancouver Island many years ago. It's a long litany to get here, and here we have today a situation where it's all for naught. Here we are again now with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, the government had to eat crow with Bill 29. It had to repeal sections of Bill 29 that prohibited those collective agreements from including provisions that seek the limit and restrict or in any way regulate the contracting out of non-clinical services. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have no doubt in my mind that this is where this government would love to go: contracting out ambulatory services in small towns. It's almost like they're looking forward to perhaps a post office…. The post master would be a multitude of many things, and the postmaster, probably, in a small hamlet would also have an old beat-up car and run around and pick people up and submit his invoices whenever he was called upon. We have to ask ourselves, of course: what does that mean when it comes to training? I want to talk about that as well. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1030]
It took many years to put together an argument, and I'm happy to say that Bill 29 did go to the courts. It went before the courts, and the Supreme Court of Canada in June 2007 ruled parts of Bill 29 illegal and established collective bargaining as a right protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights. It's enshrined [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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Bill 29 illegal, and established collective bargaining as a right — as a right protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights. It's enshrined. Every chance this government has, it's going to test it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This Bill 21, I believe, is a fundamental shift that, in its hastiness and almost belittling attempt on the paramedics of British Columbia.... I believe it's somewhat contemptuous, and that is what Bill 21, I really think, is all about. That is why it's important to address the aspects of Bill 21 — which does not try and reconcile, if you will. It is somewhat representative of a government that's conceited, big-headed, selfish. That is what we see in Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We've witnessed the untruthfulness of this government before the election — the promise that there would be a smaller debt and it mushroomed by three to four times. We heard the aspect that there would be no HST, and after the election — here we go — there it is. It's this deceitfulness, the falsehood where it said one thing during the election and did something very different after the election. And here we are again with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
On that side, there's no credibility or trust by the people of British Columbia and certainly by those who are on the front line of delivering our emergency services. And now we have this propaganda or distrust enshrined in this Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We can look right at its title. Let's look at its title. Right from its title it's called the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act — collective agreement act. Can you believe that they would come up with the audacity to refer to it as a collective agreement? This is an absolute sham. This is imposing the will of the employer on to the employee. They have the audacity.... [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We talked about, of course, this deceitfulness that we've seen from this government, the way to gloss things over, and right there on the bill — the title, the subject — there it is: collective agreement act. What a farce. It's an absolute sham. It's trickery, and only the B.C. Liberal government would come up with the audacity to call it that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
What a collective agreement. There's no collective agreement here. Collective? Not. It's forcing, again, the will of the employer over a defenceless group of citizens who are there for you and me. They should be held in the highest regard, the pedestal of our employees in this province, and they are completely tossing about as though they're a ragbag of disposable entities. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This bill is absolutely outrageous — absolutely outrageous. Collective bargaining is sitting down and working out your differences. It's not running around with a piece of paper and saying: "We're calling it collective bargaining. We're calling it a collective agreement." It's about negotiating. It's about what makes this province wonderful — to sit together and work our differences out and continue to deliver the services that the people of British Columbia need. That's the nature of collective bargaining. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That is also the nature of parliamentary democracy itself, a system where we sit around and yes, there are amendments and yes, there are times listening to the opposition. Above all, you listen to those you're about to hurt the most — those who have mortgages, those who, in my estimation, should be seen as the highest esteemed of the province in the delivery of our health care systems. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This is a government that believes in conflict. I believe it should be the other way around. It should be about open discussion, something that's transparent, something we can sit down and work out with people. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But that it what Bill 21 is doing: it's here to rip apart that decent way of dealing with our differences in a collective bargaining scenario. Collective agreement act? Agreement? Where's the agreement? There's no agreement here. None. Nada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1035]
I'll tell you what the agreement really is all about. It's about the inability of this government, that cannot bargain in good faith. That is what this agreement [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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agreement? Where is the agreement? There's no agreement here — none; nada. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'll tell you what the agreement is really all about. It's about the inability of this government, which cannot bargain in good faith. That is what this agreement's all about. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
It's interesting. We recently discovered, thanks to the good member — our Labour critic here, the MLA for Burnaby-Edmonds — who exposed the marching orders from VANOC that are forcing the hands of our paramedics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
An agreement is a contract, but I have to ask you: "What contract?" There's no contract here. This is not a contract. This is a major dispute, and there is no agreement. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Just on the title alone, this falsehood, the B.C. Liberal government is making, I believe, a mockery of the process of collective bargaining. They are absolutely deliberately rubbing salt in the wounds of our working people. That is what this bill is all about. It is a vicious, malicious act. There's no other way to call it. And what a joke. Any rightful-minded citizen will call it the "big stick act." That is what it is. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The members on the other side don't get it. They jeer the working people. They hold them in contempt. And the hold our paramedic of this province in such a disdainful and disrespectful view. I just don't understand it. I'll be honest. This is how they view the world. They are the captains of industry, and everyone else must come cap in hand. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We see all the bureaucrats and the benefits, the bonuses, the Crown corp executives get. We can talk about all the wonderful tickets we're going to see passed out to friends and insiders for VANOC. Of course, we're talking about the Olympics and all the great venues. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
And we know what our paramedics will be doing. Yes, they will be doing their best for the Olympics, and yes, they deserve an opportunity to put their message and their case forward. When you think of public health and safety, isn't that what the Olympics should be built on — that kind of security? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We know they don't care about working conditions. We can talk about working…. You've heard it here before. I think of the hours and hours. The moments where I've talked to paramedics…. They're running every which way. We have the statistics to show where there are various garages. In my area in North Delta there are 41 calls a day, just in my area alone. The working conditions… [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I couldn't do that job. I couldn't. When I was a child I thought I could. I had a different job a while back, and I used to see some of the stuff that's on the road, and how they can do it is beyond me. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government doesn't care about their working conditions or decent wages. I don't think they care about pensions or better health care for all or equity in this province — where we're all treated equally. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. Speaker, I don't think they care about you or me, your family, and they certainly don't care about the paramedics of the province of British Columbia. They don't care. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This was the vindictive nature of the government of its day. This is the vindictive nature. It was very clear upon winning the election that they don't care. They say one thing, and they do something else. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
These are workers who are willing to risk their lives for you and me. They should be held in the highest esteem. They are our heroes. But the pompousness and the rashness of this government turns its back on them. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I can tell you that on this side we are willing to stand up for the fundamental rights of workers in collective bargaining in the province of B.C. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
So what's in a name? Bill 21, the Ambulance Services Collective Agreement Act. Collective agreement act. It has as much credibility as what happened in the implementation of Bill 29. It, too, masqueraded itself as something different. It was called the Health and Social Services Delivery Improvement Act. Well, improvement it did not do. Another untruth. But it mimicked what was to come. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1040]
Here we are seven years later. How this Liberal government tries to gloss over its dirty deeds. The shoddy mess took us [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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But you know in a minute what was to come. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Here we are seven years later. How this Liberal government tries to gloss over its dirty deeds. The shoddy mess took us to the Supreme Court — a national embarrassment, a national disgrace, if you will. B.C. was once the proudest province of some of the most progressive collective bargaining processes and legislation in Canada. Now we are the laughingstock. It's all this sneakiness that comes to mind. All the sneakiness of how they implement this nefarious type of legislation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Friday nights are a typical example of how they try to sneak it through. The press releases, you know, and here we are. We'll probably see the same type of sneakiness during the Olympics. Everybody will be out with their tickets while attentions will be elsewhere and the midnight oil will be burning over there. Some of their specialized hit teams will be with their hired guns finding another way to screw the working person. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: Would you be careful of your use of language. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: I'm sorry. I withdraw, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
How they demoralize and upset the people of the province, those who work for a living. That's what's going to happen. Keep your ears to the ground, because we're going to see more Bill 21s being invented while everybody else is celebrating the games. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You can watch the Premier smiling like some Suharto, waving at the crowds, and the OICs — the orders-in-council — will keep churning out. That's how they work. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
But I've got to ask the question: why won't the Liberal MLAs stand up now to a very arrogant Premier. Why don't they stand up and put their life-saving paramedics before the despot? Stand up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Where is Carole Taylor when you need her most? I had respect for, but I had great disagreements with, the then-Finance Minister. TILMA — I could go on and on. But she came up with a $6 billion package that included signing bonuses to public sector workers, ensuring labour peace and security through the Olympics. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Where is former Minister Olga Ilich. No wonder the moderates, if you want to call them that, left. The extreme right over there is in control. There is not one MLA who is willing to stand up. Stand up. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
When the boss finally walks into your caucus room, I'm sure the henchmen slink their way into the room and stare for any discontentment. They're frightened over there. They're not going to stand up for the workers or the people of the province. They're going to let a special group of people within cabinet dictate to them what it's all about. It's about their friends, insiders and corporatism. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's no real small-l liberal left over there. This government is exposed for what it really is. This Bill 21 clearly demonstrates that. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
We know what happens when you basically shake your head and get in line with what's going on with the extreme right wing over there. Just ask the former Attorney General. For four years he ducked; he hid. "It's before the courts. It's before the courts." And where is Wally Oppal now. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Deputy Speaker: I'd remind you that we are talking about Bill 21. We are on second reading of Bill 21. So I would ask you to discuss that bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: Absolutely, hon. Speaker. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
That's what Bill 21 brings to mind. Bill 21 comes to mind how those members are unwilling to stand up. An apologist will get you nowhere. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
There's no improvement in this bill here at all. It's going to create great chaos. It's bombastic. I think it's brassy. It's shameless. It's a condescending view of a government over those who are trying to fetter out a better way of life — a better and decent wage. They deserve better than what this government is offering. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1045]
How can anyone over there sit and agree with this Bill 21? Many of them will turn their backs as we speak here. Many will somehow shut down their ears. They don't want to listen to it. They don't want at all to hear what's going on. They're part of the jet set [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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many of them will turn their back as we speak here. Many will somehow shut down their ears. They don't want to listen to it. They don't want at all to hear what's going on. They're part of the jet set, will fly around, spend lots of money for parades and everything else — hundreds of thousands of dollars. But they still through it will turn their back to what's happening in this room here, with total disrespect to the paramedics and people working in this Health Ministry. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, it sums up this government to a T. It does — the arrogance. Bill 21 strips the union of its right to negotiate. It still amazes me today that this government has the audacity and thoughtlessness to think that it can get away with it, that they can somehow…. I don't know how to suggest it, and correct me if you have to, hon. Speaker, but they think they can just sort of goose-step their way over anything that tramples over people's rights. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The government had recanted its Bill 29. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
Deputy Speaker: Member. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Hon. B. Penner: Point of order. The member knows the bounds of the debate, and he is clearly exceeding them with his ridiculous comments. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
G. Gentner: I withdraw that, hon. Speaker. Government thinks it can march its way — it can march its way. I won't describe the type of marching. But they can continue and stomp their way over rights people have held very dear in this province. If there was no Charter in this country, constitutional rights in this country, where would we be with this government? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
This government would continue to rip and tear collective agreements apart like never before at its own convenience and, of course, for their friends. I don't think they've learned a thing since they had to recant Bill 29. It's quite obvious here with this legislation. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I know that the government opposite doesn't believe in the notion of security for the workplace, which builds a strong community, knowing you're going to be there, not having to uplift your family at a whim of a government and try and find schooling somewhere else, go into a new community because the job's no longer there. That security, that stability, is an instrument that government should be upholding, and they're ripping it apart with Bill 21. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Stability, I believe, is what the Olympics…. It's what the government uses as its flagship. It's there for the future. It's there for stimulus. It's there for our security. There's no security with this bill. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Unlike Carole Taylor, this group couldn't negotiate a dust-off at a preschool birthday party. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Interjection.
G. Gentner: Deep thoughts indeed. They're deep thoughts, because I harken back to when I was a child. As a child…. Even today, I still hold the paramedics in this province with the high esteem that most people should be holding them or looking at them with. They should deserve that kind of respect. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, we can talk about the recruitment that goes in, the disease, the germs, the horrific situations. They deal with severed arms, accidents. They witness accidents that most of us would never get over, and there's all the stress and the high suicide rates that go with that job. And they've got to be defused. Those services are not being provided. When you are involved with that type of stress-related job…. There's more related stress than for most of us, certainly most of us in this room. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
In recruitment, in the absence of long-term training, there's a need for retention of that training. It's no longer there. It's reflected in the increasing frequency of remote stations. They've got to move back and forth — a lack of staff. It goes on and on. Let's not talk about the care they provide at hospitals, when we've seen the complete collapse of acute care hospitals and emergency systems and a province. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Who's there to care for you in the hallways — the hallway medicine created by this government? It's the paramedic. We're so far behind that instead of getting back on the road, our paramedics have got to stay with their emergency patient. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
[1050]
These are self-starters. They have a work ethic, but I want to end with the notion about morale. You know [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
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our paramedics have got to stay with their emergency patient. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
You know, these are self-starters. They have a work ethic. But I want to end with a notion about morale. This is a type of job that when you lose morale, you lose everything, because not only is it a system of caring for those who are in dire need; it is a system whereby you count on the team. You're dealing with triage, call systems. You count on that team. When morale is gone and it's dissipated because of an uncaring government — it does not respect them — it's a system that fails. It fails. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I have to tell you, it's a download, also, on municipal government. When you don't have the proper paramedic systems in place and the ambulatory systems, it's up to our firefighters to be the first responders. That's another example of downloading by this government, by the uncertainty created by Bill 21 and the lack to have bargained in good faith. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
I'm going to conclude with those remarks, and I have to tell you again that I believe in a province that believes in collective agreements. I believe in a province whereby people are treated with equal rights. I believe in a province that believes that care for our citizens should be above all other needs, all other needs. I believe in a compassionate province that believes in people and cares for people. I don't believe in a province that puts certain friends and corporate interests ahead of the general population of British Columbia. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]