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New Solar Minimum Ushers In Extreme Cold Climate? The longer the sun remains quiet, the higher the chances of a prolonged series of cold winters and shorter summers. This is the quietest sun we have seen in almost a century. The current solar cycle, which began in 1996, was expected to reach a minimum and transition to a new solar cycle in January 2007, post 11 years. It did not, although we have crossed 13+ years and are still counting in January 2010. We are experiencing an historically deep solar minimum! For those who study the sun, the length of the solar cycle, lasting an average of 11 years, has proven to be the best historical indicator of short-term climate. At the end of these solar cycles, sunspot activity first declines, and then picks up markedly, typically indicating the beginning of a new cycle. However, the slow return to the next phase of the solar cycle at present may portend a general decline in solar activity. 2008 was a sunspot “bear market” and 2009 was no better according to NASA. There were no sunspots observed on 78% of the days in 2008. To find a year with more blank suns, we have to go all the way back to 1913. Sunspots for 2009 dropped even lower: there were no sunspots on 90% of the days by April.

Economic Consequences

The Dalton Minimum was a period in history with very low solar activity characterised by prolonged cold conditions between 1796 and 1824. This began with a solar cycle that lasted for 13.6 years, not dis-similar to the present elongated solar cycle. That cycle was then followed by two very inactive solar cycles. During this time period, there were reports of wide-scale crop failures and food shortages. If similar conditions occur after this present, ongoing, deep solar minimum, and there is a large drop in temperature due to an inactive sun, the world could see further stress on the food supply. Areas that had become available for growing food during the recent short period of warming, may become too cold again to grow food over the next two cycles, ie, two to three decades.

Low Solar Activity

The American Geophysical Union's journal "Eos" published a paper in late 2009 suggesting that the levels of magnetic activity associated with recent sunspots indicates the sun might be returning to a state of low activity, similar to that of the historic Maunder Minimum between 1645 and 1715, when sunspots became exceedingly rare. During that period, called the Little Ice Age, Europe and North America were subject to bitterly cold winters and very short summers. Observations of this period suggest that the solar cycle essentially stopped during this time, as very few sunspots were recorded during that time. Global mean temperatures responded accordingly dropping by 0.4°C. The effect was rather pronounced in the Northern Hemisphere, and felt as particularly harsh during the chilly white winters.

The last solar cycle drew to a minimum as expected, leaving the sun with very few sunspots for the past few years. However, what is surprising is the slow pace at which the next solar cycle is starting. That delay set the stage for the Eos paper, which notes that the few sunspots that have been visible are associated with extremely weak changes in solar magnetism. In some models of solar dynamics, this indicates that we are heading for a period similar to the Maunder Minimum, at least as far as the sun is concerned. Assuming this model is right, can we expect another Little Ice Age, wiping out any impact of the greenhouse gases that have been pumped into the atmosphere?

Solar Cycle Climate Connection

The association between longer solar cycles and cooler climate was first demonstrated in 1991 by two Danish researchers, Egil Friis-Christensen, the director of the Danish Space Centre in Copenhagen, and Knud Lassen, a solar scientist at the Centre, in a paper published in Science. If we compare the global average temperature changes estimated for the Maunder Minimum, -0.4°C, with those that have occurred since the middle of the 20th century, which are about +0.4 to +0.5°C, they even out. However, Australian geologist David Archibald has found that for every one-year increase in solar cycle length, there is a 0.5°C decline in surface air temperature during the following cycle. The present solar cycle will be 13+ years in length and, using the Archibald relationship, there would likely be a 1.0-1.5°C decline in temperature over the next solar cycle. This possible temperature decrease may not sound like much, but it is thrice as large as the increase in average global temperature during the 20th Century. It is also worth comparing that figure with the warming expected by the end of the 21st century, which the IPCC estimates at over 2°C.

All these numbers indicate that a return to Maunder-Minimum-like conditions could first take us back to very 'cool cycle' conditions last experienced between 1880 and 1915, which would be a significant change. Beyond that, a more drastic cooling, similar to that during the Maunder Minimum, could plunge the Earth into another Little Ice Age, but only time will tell us if that is likely.

Solar Magnetic Field

Henrik Svensmark is the director of the Centre for Sun-Climate Research at the Danish Space Research Institute (DSRI). He studies the effects of cosmic rays on cloud formation. He has suggested that changes in the solar magnetic field associated with sunspots can also have an indirect affect on the climate. These changes influence the number of cosmic rays that reach the earth's atmosphere —- weaker solar magnetic fields mean that the Earth gets hit by more cosmic rays. The cosmic rays form ions in the lower atmosphere that seed clouds, which cool the planet by reflecting sunlight back out, thereby exaggerating the cooling effects of much lower solar activity.

Conclusion

The current data is consistent with a decline in the sun's magnetic field activity, which could potentially end in a sunspot-free period. It is uncertain whether the solar irradiance will rebound soon into a more-or-less normal solar cycle –- or whether it might remain at a low level for decades, analogous to the Maunder Minimum, a period of few sunspots that may have been a principal cause of the Little Ice Age. Humanity is directly affected by this because sunspot numbers act as a proxy for the amount of radiation sent out by the sun, which can have a significant influence on the Earth's climate.

According to the climate change establishment, the sun is only one of a large number of factors that influence the climate, and the changes in solar radiance caused by sunspots are asserted by them to have a smaller impact on the climate than that caused by our ever-increasing levels of greenhouse gases. Nonetheless, even a relatively small cooling effect caused by reduced solar activity, may buy humanity valuable time in coming to grips with greenhouse gases we are pumping into the atmosphere, at least when it comes to Earth's average temperature increase. Ocean acidification and long term damage to the environment are not addressed via the possibility of much reduced solar activity.

Key Question: For how many years must the planet cool, and how cold must it get, before we are able to say that the planet is no longer warming?

[ENDS]

We welcome your thoughts, observations and views. To reflect further on this, please respond within Twitter, Linked and Facebook's ATCA Open and related Socratic dialogue platform of HQR.

All the best


DK Matai

Chairman and Founder: mi2g.net, ATCA, The Philanthropia, HQR, @G140

To connect directly with:

. DK Matai: http://twitter.com/DKMatai

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The "ATCA Open" network on LinkedIn and Facebook is for professionals interested in ATCA's original global aims, working with ATCA step-by-step across the world, or developing tools supporting ATCA's objectives to build a better world.




















































The original ATCA -- Asymmetric Threats Contingency Alliance -- is a philanthropic expert initiative founded in 2001 to resolve complex global challenges through collective Socratic dialogue and joint executive action to build a wisdom based global economy. Adhering to the doctrine of non-violence, ATCA addresses asymmetric threats and social opportunities arising from climate chaos and the environment; radical poverty and microfinance; geo-politics and energy; organised crime & extremism; advanced technologies -- bio, info, nano, robo & AI; demographic skews and resource shortages; pandemics; financial systems and systemic risk; as well as transhumanism and ethics. Present membership of the original ATCA network is by invitation only and has over 5,000 distinguished members from over 120 countries: including 1,000 Parliamentarians; 1,500 Chairmen and CEOs of corporations; 1,000 Heads of NGOs; 750 Directors at Academic Centres of Excellence; 500 Inventors and Original thinkers; as well as 250 Editors-in-Chief of major media.

The Philanthropia, founded in 2005, brings together over 1,000 leading individual and private philanthropists, family offices, foundations, private banks, non-governmental organisations and specialist advisors to address complex global challenges such as countering climate chaos, reducing radical poverty and developing global leadership for the younger generation through the appliance of science and technology, leveraging acumen and finance, as well as encouraging collaboration with a strong commitment to ethics. Philanthropia emphasises multi-faith spiritual values: introspection, healthy living and ecology. Philanthropia Targets: Countering climate chaos and carbon neutrality; Eliminating radical poverty -- through micro-credit schemes, empowerment of women and more responsible capitalism; Leadership for the Younger Generation; and Corporate and social responsibility.
— with Stephen B. Waddell, Gary Chattem, Sotirios Papadopoulos, Douglas Ward Kelley, Angela Shelton, Daniel D. Woo, Anna Novikov, Alycia de Mesa, Sally Jacobs, Roxanne Mather, Sasha Carter, Lynn Pearce, Mariamme Baum, Jeff Grant, Danny Rykaczeweski, Alba Lidia Chorny, Bozo Mc Cloud, Deb Golden Eagle, Michael Buchanan, Tammy Christine, Surinda Kaur, Princess Maya, Julijana Petkovska de Clerc, Subhashish Acharya, Karen Pappageorge, R V Prasad Meka, Teresa Isabel Garcia-Grauel, James Birthrong, Janet Bennison, Madonna Dillon, Joe J Falcone, Tia Carr Williams and Hervé Musseau.
  • Elisa Hatch, Anna Novikov, Bobbi Jane and 21 others like this.
    • Michael Buchanan Indicators abound on the planet that we are seeing a SHIFT! What we do with the info, that is the question. All shall be revealed. ";-)
      January 12, 2010 at 10:30am
    • Sasha Carter Thanks for tagging me in this. I'm honored and love to be informed.
      January 12, 2010 at 11:03am
    • Sylvia Bullett the paradigm shift is happening now!
      January 12, 2010 at 11:04am
    • Anna Novikov So many factors involved in climate change! Thanks for sharing this infomation.
      January 12, 2010 at 11:43am
    • James Birthrong Thanks again, DK. Kewl as usual!
      January 12, 2010 at 12:12pm
    • Rick McLastnom Just FYI - This graph shows Total Solar Irradiance.
      -TSI is lower this minimum than the previous two
      -Unexpected change after a greatly disputed increase in the previous minimum
      -Few mechanisms exist for magnetic changes in the basal solar luminosity (C/o NASA)
      January 12, 2010 at 12:34pm
    • Rick McLastnom And thanks for tagging me. :)
      January 12, 2010 at 12:36pm
    • Roxanne Mather This is fascinating.. Thanks so much for posting and tagging!
      ♥ One Love and Jah Bless
      January 12, 2010 at 12:38pm
    • Douglas Ward Kelley I don't think we can rejoice and let up on the goal of CO reduction just yet? Even if we're cooling, we need to reduce our waste that contributes to warming.
      January 12, 2010 at 1:15pm
    • Gloria O'Neil Savage Amazing! After billion of years the universe knows how to take care of itself! Global warming, brings global cooling.
      January 12, 2010 at 1:15pm
    • Princess Maya Thanks DK!!! Amazing!!
      Rothschild's speech on Global warming: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDtI5Wq9MKg
      January 12, 2010 at 1:18pm
    • Tammy Christine ‎: )
      January 12, 2010 at 1:44pm
    • Amanda Dawn Montanaro Only collective consciousness in the actual mass energy generated from radiant sentient beings can offset any supposed catastrophe. The brilliant news is that we have already begun and indeed overcome. Ray On!
      January 12, 2010 at 1:45pm
    • Joe J Falcone DK thanks for including me in this conversation, there is so much to consider when it comes to weather and I find it all very interesting.
      January 12, 2010 at 2:07pm
    • Subhashish Acharya
      Guys this is enlightening. If the Sun has been going down from 1996 - why have leaders talked about Global Warming all the time. It seems we are heading for an Ice Age :)) Some people have even said that the CO2 from human population is cr...eating the green house effect. haha! what a rebuttal to those people.

      CO2 is needed because thats what plants take in to create sugars!

      And regarding the shift? yes the magnetic field is steadily going down, creating an awareness never experienced before. However the question is how prepared are we for this shift? What we are now , will not help us pass that shift because the actual plasma storm hasnt arrived yet. The only way to shift to the SHIFT through the plasma is compassion.Else we are toast :)

      The plasma storms are recorded in all ancient literature and looks like a squatter man. Its 9 plasma donut rings that slowly change to the squatter man like structure.Thats the actual significance of the Vishnu. Just Google "squatter man" and read it. Its amazing.
      See More
      January 12, 2010 at 3:11pm
    • Allen E. Simpson
      Hmmm... I had a vision of a similar chart last night while fading off to sleep...however the one I envisioned was conceived in the context of trying to design a 'financial/economic time machine' that crossed stock price fluctuations with t...he equivalent of Google-type search data pertaining to insider-type trading in the context of that 'proliferation of Black Swans' post from the other day.

      It's like God could use a little digital forensic science to reverse time and undo some of the damage done to the future balance of society in the wake of recent slightly-far-more-transparent-than-in-previous-centuries debacles like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/6962632/America-slides-deeper-into-depression-as-Wall-Street-revels.html

      Hmmm...

      I believe somewhere between that and this lies the future of humanity's sanity. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3932487043163636261#

      Back on point as far as the natural global warming/cooling cycles...at least we have increasingly detailed data and sophisticated technology to analyze it as time progresses. Hopefully in the next few centuries (assuming mankind survives) we will be able to understand the true myriad of factors affecting the laws of our experience of existence and at least be able to accurately understand if not completely solve and mitigate the damage of any less-than-desirable scenarios that might unfold.

      Last night I also had a crazy 'scenario' pop into my mind that perhaps the 'God-like concept' that is responsible for creation of the Universe and planets is not the same specific 'God-like entity' responsible for the life-technology on this specific planet. What if Earth was just a convenient incubator for a far superior life-form's 'life design' experiment?

      I have always kind of seen existence itself as a puzzle, and the ultimate goal of our initially primitive existence and evolution was to eventually understand enough of the technology that created us to replicate it, thereby bringing the concept of 'God' full circle in a way. This is why I want a religion that worships truth and science, as I consider 'truth' to be reality as it exists and necessary in understanding any equation or experience, and science to be the pursuit of understanding the technology that is our existence.

      I'd even through a little safe and carefully designed and controlled alchemy into the mix and 'routine communal experience' to enhance it all since 'God' obviously put and made all things that are possible possible for a reason.

      How can you dream and not know what is going to happen next in your dream like watching a movie for the first time even though the entire dream you are experiencing is theoretically completely controlled and contained within your own mind? In that same line of thought, how can we ever prove that everything we see, test, feel, experience, and 'measure' with our instruments is nothing more than the equivalent of a lucid dream? If you don't know what is going to happen next in your own dreams within your own mind, then what is the difference between that and the future of what we consider to be 'reality'?

      Perception via observation via organs that have simply adapted to decipher certain known, but otherwise invisible/non-existent wavelengths? Or are the wavelengths themselves just an illusion like firing a laser in a Second Life-type videogame environment?

      Thanks for the daily brain exercise platform DK!

      Always fascinating thoughts and material. :)
      See More
      January 12, 2010 at 3:43pm
    • Douglas Ward Kelley You lost me Allen, but I am trying to watch you video?
      January 12, 2010 at 4:22pm
    • Karen Pappageorge Sunspot daily count .... http://spaceweather.com/ If you would like to follow. So, life fixes it self after all:)
      January 12, 2010 at 5:32pm
    • Tom Foremski
      The amount of solar energy received by the earth's surface has been affected by the rise in jet travel. After 9/11 when jets were grounded for several days there was a large spike in temperatures because of the lack of contrails caused by a...ircraft. Would a ban on air travel be a reasonable response to this condition? After all, if global crops are in danger of failing, this would be a wise move: ban air travel during the crucial summer months when crops ripen and are harvested.See More
      January 12, 2010 at 5:34pm
    • Don Tamerlane Bronson wouldn't the release of so much water initially lower temperatures but then the water would gradually warm and without the coolness of the ice flows everything will become much much hotter? A temporary retreat, like a snake coiling, it appears to be going backward and indeed does a little bit before striking forward..
      January 12, 2010 at 5:35pm
    • Alycia de Mesa fascinating - thanks DK
      January 12, 2010 at 5:48pm
    • Jay Burnett for up to date sunspots see http://spaceweather.com/
      January 13, 2010 at 2:50am
    • Douglas Ward Kelley Space weather today is mostly sunny with no proton flares, which is good.
      January 13, 2010 at 8:06am
    • Rick McLastnom Don't forget sunspots send o2 vapour towards Earth..
      January 13, 2010 at 11:47am
    • Jim Vanderhoek With the decrease in solar radiance, I find it alarming that January 2000 to December 2009 was the warmest decade on record. 2009 was the 2nd warmest year. It looks to me that even if solar activity continues at a reduced level, warming will not halt, unless we reduce our influence.
      January 23, 2010 at 10:34am
    • Sharon Sunness I thought Solar Cycle 24 began Jan 2007, earlier than originally predicted.
      January 23, 2010 at 1:56pm
    • Ryan Sieben lots of good information in that post thank you , i enjoyed reading all of it
      January 23, 2010 at 3:57pm
    • Terry L McCathern
      Global warming is not real. The US Government is using the issue to make billions of dollars, start a one-world government and control our lives, from the cars we drive to the foods we eat. There is evidence that leads to one man behind the... global warming conspiracy.There is no such thing as climate change.This is a host by the US Government to fool people into buying things that has to deal with climate change.The government will own all of Americans with the New World Order that will be form from all this jelber jaber about climent control.See More
      January 23, 2010 at 4:23pm
    • Adam Jones
      Terry McCathern is not real. The US Government is using him to make billions of spam posts, propagate fear and hysteria over conspiracy theories, from the discussion boards of Facebook to the teabagger marches attended by white supremacists.... There is evidence that leads to no one profiile for Terry McCathern. There is no such thing as Terry McCathern. This is a host of the teabagger movement to fool people into believing things that have no basis in actual reality. The teabagger movement wants to own all of Americans with their hero Sarah Palin that will be a formed from all this jibber jabber about an 8th grade level of education *evidenced by poor spelling and presenting arguments that can not be supported by facts. See More
      January 23, 2010 at 5:23pm
    • Mary Baxter very interesting DK..as always. Are we entering the great Freeze and time of a Little Ice Age? How can Al Gore speak of global warming and say "the evidence is in and the debate is over" ???
      January 23, 2010 at 5:47pm
    • Allen E. Simpson You're funny Casper - but I hardly think Sarah Palin's role and character has anything to do with representing the public sentiment that has parallels to the minds that created the original American...

      Nevermind. Not even going to bother. lol
      January 23, 2010 at 10:55pm
    • Ryan Sieben casper is probably that corey kid , lol , talks the same , and now hes blocked as well
      January 23, 2010 at 11:39pm
    • Adam Jones blockage schmockage.. there's over the counter medicine for that sort of thing.
      January 24, 2010 at 11:07am
    • Mary Baxter Casper, have you been taking your meds? hehe "blockage schmockage"..gonna keep that one in mind for comic relief during my next colonoscopy!
      January 24, 2010 at 11:16am
    • Sylvia Bullett Great idea, Mary! I'm all for positive visualization! Don't forget to drink violet light,now!
      January 24, 2010 at 11:33am
    • Steve Smith
      You know I saw just recently a video of an x clas flare erupt from the sun I think occoured at the beginning of this year, some scientists at NASA think we could be in for sunspots like those that occoured in 1859 and in the late 60's what ...this could mean is if were hit by one of these types of flares is we could be cut off electrically for up to 2 months and pretty much thrown back to basics. It's also speculated it could cost the world economy up to 2 trillion $ in the first year. Check it outSee More
      January 25, 2010 at 1:31am
    • Steve Smith
      Also some might not agree but were also headed for galactic center in 2012 now I'm not a doomsday sayer but when you see that were to cross the central plaine (not the actual center but the band extending from the center) it's paper thin ba...nd will have some kind of effect enhanced on our total solar system and sun, I can only speculate that this may be part of what's causing the heating of all the planets and the unusual cycle of the sun. Will post links if anyone is interested in finding out more. And have no fear they will be of scientific links not doomsday crap. PeaceSee More
      January 25, 2010 at 1:41am
    • Bozo Mc Cloud Yes, please, Steve! Scientific, not doomsay crap always good.
      January 25, 2010 at 7:00am
    • Subhashish Acharya
      Steve do post some links. Thanks.

      Also if you see my post regarding this topic( see above ) you will observe that my post complements yours.

      Just for the sake of explanation -
      ... The solar flare are but plasma storms. The plasma have been recorded by all civilizations for ages. Forexample when when Hindus start their ritual they have to start by offering prayers to the swastika and a figure called squatter man. Google that out. It's a picture.

      Now when the plasma storm hits the atmosphere it looks like 9 violet donuts on top of each other. Why 9. Good question ? The earth I hope you know also has chakras and so do we. The earths consciousness interacts with the plasma to form this structure. Once this forms there is a change in mass consciosness. Electrical stuff and magnetic radiation go crazy and so do people. Thus if you do not have consciousness the plasma will drive you mad. But if you have spirituality inside you will suddenly feel yourself feeling better and connected. But frankly they are powerful and you realize all civilizations worship them because they kn ow this has happened in the past.

      Anyway this 9 donuts is what the Hindus call Vishnu the God.

      Now the earth sends these plasma storms every 11 years and the last was 2001. If you look up the pics of the sun you will as you said there is an increase in sunspots. They usually occur on the 19.47 latitude and occur in pairs. Sunspots are actually places leading to a blackhole and there are numerous ones being formed. No reason the spots appear dark because they absorb light rays.

      Coming back to the point - if a galactic aligning happens all combined there could be a poleshift. But frankly these are conjecture. But you never know.

      Why do these things happen. The earth and the sun are connected to conscious energy. The plasma simply is a purification process. If you have love in your hearts the plasma takes a fractal path into your heart and leaves. If the love is absent it creates heAt because it cannot form recursive patterns. My opinion doesn't matter here but frankly I feel the earth lives with too much scum and the scum has never treated her well. Purification has to happen.

      Anyway guys google squatter man and see it. Last thing the Mayan calendar is a spiral kind of a calendar that measured time based on consciousness. Stopping of the calendar is crap. Life is typically circular but actually it is helical. And this appears to be circular. Either the human race consciously ascends or be toast.

      Sorry for the long post
      See More
      January 25, 2010 at 7:30am
    • Subhashish Acharya
      Guys - Isabelle commented on this topic - to a different thread though. I think its worthwhile looking at it : Here it is.I have requested her to repost it on this thread. But nevertheless heres the post. I am sure you would concur that the... post makes a lot of sense.

      Isabelle Harford
      As said before, such a system is actually there to be part of our way of living once we are able to function at our highest potential, under spiritual guidance. It is revealing it and announcing its arrival. We are ready for something better. We are ready to put something of a higher nature at the centre of our attention than our personal advantage... See More upon others. We are ready to care for each other. We are ready to function as a whole, for a higher purpose, together, supporting, respecting and recognising each other (and each living being up to each particle) as of the divine origin we all are.
      See More
      January 25, 2010 at 8:01am
    • Subhashish Acharya
      Guys - am sorry. I think am posting too much today.( a sure sign of old age...haha) But thought you might like to hear it.

      Let me take Isabelles post ..here:

      "We are ready to function as a whole, for a higher purpose"
      ...
      See we are all made up of atoms. When you peer into the atom you will only see it has 99.99% open space. Strange isnt it. We all are made up of open space. We are actually alike !

      When one thinks about "Wholeness" what it truly means that we would be One with the Universe, Or be one with every point in the Universe. Thus each point in me , you , they ..everything is the same. Thats truly oneness. Reiterating ......When the consciousness in us tells us that we are the same as every point everywhere we are truly "ONE".

      You know what that means ...?
      This means that each point is a point of singularity. A point of oneness. Which means every point is a Black "Whole" of oneness.
      See More
      January 25, 2010 at 8:28am
    • Steve Smith
      http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/05/09/nasa-warns-of-super-solar-storm-2012/ this is an explanation of what happened in 1859 and what were possibly going to go through in and around 2012 (funny it should be 2012) also this link exp...lains something interesting that could be part of our unusual weather changes too http://sse.jpl.nasa.gov/scitech/display.cfm?ST_ID=2293 it would seen there are too many things that can effect our climate to really just blame it on CO2. also watch this video on youtube that explains about galactic center and how were very near to passing through it, i have sent an email to DK Matai to see what his thoughts are on the possible effects on the planet as we pass through this galactic 'Band' If you will. any thoughts would be appreciated. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds4pm2kuKGQ there is plenty of info on this alignment but just what is right and not is open for speculation.See More
      January 25, 2010 at 8:31am
    • Steve Smith you know it just amazes me that nasa seem so dismissive of this. im not sure about the rest of you but i whole heartedly believe nasa hide alot of things from us and have seen much material to counter their dismissive attitudes to things they have been caught out with.
      January 25, 2010 at 8:33am
    • Steve Smith
      Subhashish Acharya, i totally agree with you, what the bleep is a good source of info for this, its like when you take 2 pieces of entangles matter to 2 seperate locations even in the vacume of space and alter the state of 1 the other react...s at exactly the same time, thus prooving 1 or both of 2 thing: the communicate at infinate speed or they are still connected regardless of the space between them and since we came from the big bang or source of all life we must all be connected in the same way. this is my god theory, if god can be seen as the creation (not a being with a beard and robes) and we are connected by that one moment then god is everything and we are god. oneness. See More
      January 25, 2010 at 8:40am
    • James Birthrong Uh....Fasten yer seat belts, everybody! Nature ALWAYS bats last!
      January 25, 2010 at 8:56am
    • Sylvia Bullett years ago I wrote a funny parody of "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off"-- and I used "You say Nasa; I say Nazi"...I am surrounded by raging streams here--I can hear boulders clacking together in the stream along the road--this is a powerful time of transformation--consciousness is shifting
      January 25, 2010 at 8:58am
    • James Birthrong From what I have seen, the old equipment ( still in use, btw ), can't measure the flares because they have gone off the chart's limitations to measure them.
      January 25, 2010 at 10:51am
    • Douglas Ward Kelley
      Space weather is a concern. In 2012 when all the planets line up on one side of the sun it could theoretically cause a burst of spot activity and earth's electrical grid might fry. (Now that would be a Black Swan event.) We need to get NASA... to replace its aging sun monitoring satellite, which is equidistant between this planet and the sun. The new... See More satellite should be sufficiently hardened against radiation failure, so if there is a big solar spike, it might still keep working. The only satellite we have monitoring the Sun presently is on its last legs. At best it could give us 15 minutes warning before an unusual space weather event exploded every electrical relay transformer on the planet. Apparently our high voltage electric transmission lines would function as the perfect Earth antenna to gather this energy. I'm not sure that even with the Internet, linked to a greatly improved automated computer control of the power grid, it would be possible to shut down such a system within the 15 minutes allotted. But it'd be worth a try to save a as much of industrial capacity as possible. The biggest problem of a planetary electrical system interruption and failure event would be, of course, that there are only replacement parts for approximately 1% of it? And the rest of industrial production for the manufacture or repair of transformers would be off-line, for perhaps years. So Steve, although I think it is a concern, I don't worry about it. There is not much I could personally do about it other than learn high mountain survival skills and encourage NASA to take the threat seriously. There was an article in New Scientist magazine in March that you may have seen? http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127001.300-space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-catastrophe.html
      "The most serious space weather event in history happened in 1859. It is known as the Carrington event, after the British amateur astronomer Richard Carrington, who was the first to note its cause: "two patches of intensely bright and white light" emanating from a large group of sunspots. The Carrington event comprised eight days of severe space weather."
      Are there any experts out there on "The Carrington Event?" Space weather is exciting.
      See More
      January 25, 2010 at 10:54am
    • Steve Smith
      dont know if any of you guys have heard about this story, very strange things are going on near our sun! nasa's own satalite has picked up some earth sized orbs floating round nears the sun on the 18th of jan?! what they are nasa have been ...very quiet about and have since stopped updating their photos which were updated every hour and russia have also had technical malfunctions, just check this out and let me know what you think. its been pretty big on the net.
      http://gazbom.blogspot.com/2010/01/nasa-images-earth-sized-spherical.html
      See More
      January 25, 2010 at 10:00pm
    • DK Matai
      Dear Friends

      Wonderful to note this addition to the Socratic dialogue. It may not be a case of either/or but a case of both -- solar and anthropogenic -- influences acting simultaneously on our climate. Which is greater if 98% of our warm...th comes from the sun?

      1. Start Of The Great Freeze? As deep freeze continues across Europe, Asia and N America, conventional wisdom say its a blip http://ow.ly/WIVH

      2. Why Not Connect The Dots? Mars, Earth and The Sun: NASA scientists say that Mars has warmed by about 0.5°C since the 1970s http://ow.ly/Wolg

      All the best

      DK
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      January 27, 2010 at 2:29am
    • Ian Gallagher
      from:
      http://www.skepticalscience.com/heading-into-new-little-ice-age.htm

      ...
      Let's say for the sake of argument that the sun does enter another Maunder Minimum over the 21st Century. What effect would this have on Earth's climate? Simulat...ions of the climate response if the sun did fall to Maunder Minimum levels find that the decrease in temperature from the sun is minimal compared to the warming from man-made greenhouse gases (Feulner 2010). Cooling from the lowered solar output is estimated at around 0.1°C (with a maximum possible value of 0.3°C) while the greenhouse gas warming will be around 3.7°C to 4.5°C, depending on how much CO2 we emit throughout the 21st Century...See More
      February 23, 2010 at 4:04pm
    • Steve Smith
      well how do you explain the fact that the planets in the solar system have been getting warmer?
      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
      http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/07aug_southpole.htm
      thats just... mars but oh wait we better radio the martians to tell them their polluting too much! im sorry but yes we do burn alot of fossil fuel and we do need to move from it to another source or energy generation but the models are wrong! when you can see the effect of warming on the larger scale solar system wide, you have to ask, is the science right? i live in east anglia and am always hearing of the 'evidence' for global warming being manipulated or freedom of information being denied. its a big money spin!
      if they truly wanted to do something they'd invest it into real technologies not line their pockets.
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      February 24, 2010 at 1:25am
    • Steve Smith oh yeah i forgot to add this! all science people but noones willing to challenge it properly. http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html
      February 24, 2010 at 1:27am
    • Rick McLastnom Uhm, TSI is decreasing. Magnetic flux is decreasing. The sun was especially active during the modern maximum but we dropped into a Dalton-esque minimum recently and have come out of it pretty fast.

      Expect wild swings to this cycle.
      February 24, 2010 at 1:42am
    • Steve Smith oh look another article sayin yet another piece of 'evidence' has been removed http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/21/sea-level-geoscience-retract-siddall
      doesnt look like they have much left! you cant have a science if you dont know all there is about what it is your looking at. they have nothing but a pocket full of money at our expense!
      February 24, 2010 at 1:58am
    • Ian Gallagher
      ‎@Steve Smith

      re:Global warming on mars.

      http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-on-mars.htm
      ...
      re:retraction of IPCC paper, had you read the article, you would have realized that the paper was retracted due to calculation errors. It is unknown whether these errors would result in an over-estimate or an underestimate in sea level rise. Errors and retractions happen regularly in scientific journals. It is very well document that the sea level is rising - about 1.8mm/a last century, closer to 3mm/a in the last decade.

      Keep the discussion to either science or politics, else you risk failing on both discussions. Certainly, there are many who stand to profit from global warming research and mitigation. Certainly, there are also many who stand to profit from promoting it as a hoax. It is an enormously politically charged issue.

      Interestingly, it's not really at all a scientifically debated issue - at least not in the scientific journals, but certainly on the web. Yes, there is uncertainty to all of the findings, and there are a lot of findings that can easily stand out as odd if you don't understand the science. But if you have any scientific opposition to any global warming-related finding, I strongly suggest you go to IPCC.ch (the leading global authority) and download Assessment Report 4, book one (the Physical Science Basis} and read it. Then read it again. Then challenge it on scientific grounds.
      See More
      February 24, 2010 at 5:28am
    • Ian Gallagher PS - Your own post from livescience contains this comment:

      "While evidence suggests fluctuations in solar activity can affect climate on Earth, and that it has done so in the past, the majority of climate scientists and astrophysicists agree that the sun is not to blame for the current and historically sudden uptick in global temperatures on Earth, which seems to be mostly a mess created by our own species. "
      February 24, 2010 at 5:35am
    • Douglas Ward Kelley I'm with you Ian, even if there are other explanations of temp.s fluxuations, it is better safe than sorry and clean up our end first. If we ruined this planet there's no "do overs" for the human race. SO the goal has to be zero CO by 2045. I think. I like your post by the way.
      February 24, 2010 at 5:53am
    • Douglas Ward Kelley Ian this link is dead?
      http://www.facebook.com/l/a18fe;IPCC.ch
      February 24, 2010 at 5:55am
    • Ian Gallagher That link should be http://www.ipcc.ch/
      February 24, 2010 at 6:00am
    • Douglas Ward Kelley Got it! Thanks!
      February 24, 2010 at 6:06am
    • Steve Smith
      I know what your saying and the point I'm trying to get across is it doesn't matter what one scientist says from another the fact is when it comes down to it they can't say for sure what's right and what's not, nature on and off planet is s...uch a complex thing that each month we read about one fact being dismissed and one established, at the end of the day their quite happy to take our money and line their pocket when they don't have all the facts! They said ice caps would be almost all melted in 25 years or something but the ipcc had to retract the because it was only speculation from a paper writen some 10 20 years ago, I'm sure you all know the stories surfacing about data manipulation and refusals for fredom of information, and we put trust in these people to tell the truth now they've been caught! Most of the temperature data used to be taken in the country but what with developing cities around these sites that collect the data your not really gonna get precise readings.
      At the end of the day we both have our own routes for finding out what we want to know and I'm sure given time it'll end up one way or another, if we destroy ourselves who else can we blame?
      See More
      February 24, 2010 at 9:21am
    • Steve Smith
      And while I'm here Have you ever considered that every day someone makes the effort to reduce co2 if not by the thousands wether they believe it or not, new cars, wind farms, bio fuels and all the other technology available on the Market wh...ich is far better than 20 years surly producing less co2 than we did back then? Don't you think we should be seeing a decline in co2 emmisions? And what about the energy companies thy try to get new tech out to the public? More often than not If it's not economic they don't wanna know, even if it could revolutionise the way we live! So you tell me besides recording data which half the time is wrong one side or the other and telling us to sniff our farts and turn of light bulbs while they fly big fuckin jets with one passenger in it coz he's VIP are they actually doing about it? See More
      February 24, 2010 at 9:33am
    • Ian Gallagher
      re: first post - scientific research is the pursuit of understanding and truth. It ceases being science when you "have all the facts". You're essentially just slamming science in your post - I disagree both with your comment and the tange...nt you've gone off on.

      re: second post - again, on the contrary. Certainly, conscious CO2 emission reductions and technology improvements work to lower CO2 output. Negating that improvement is our increasing appetite for energy, industry - many things that increase CO2 output. Perhaps this is why per capita, CO2 output has remained roughly equal since the 70's. That is per capita however - a growing population then explains the significant growth of CO2 output over the years.

      http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=en_atm_co2e_pc&idim=country%3AUSA&dl=en&hl=en&q=co2+emissions+per+capita#met=en_atm_co2e_pc&idim=country:USA&tdim=true

      http://rainforests.mongabay.com/09-carbon_emissions.htm

      The rest of the second comment is again just slamming science, I'm not about to attempt to defend scientific pursuits in this forum.
      See More
      February 25, 2010 at 10:31am
    • Steve Smith
      Well when you understand why I feel the way I do it'd make sense so I had better explain: my grandad has been working for a company called chava energy for some years and has been part of a team that are currently developing devices that wo...uld totally push aside the need for energy generation through converting it from one form to another, they are what's known as over unity devices basically using energy from the quantum vacum. Now his invention which had shown to work but needs funding got the go ahead from Tony Blair, only thing is after that they never recieved funding and no calls returned, the only reasons he know this to be is, economics and disbelief in that you could get something for seemingly nothing. It's been about 5 years now and still they have no interest from the governments of the world and the scientific bodies within them. Does it not beg the question why? You tell me why I shouldn't be frustrated with the lack of need and necesity that they seem to show yet tout to the average joe that they need to without providing anything but empty promises for lots of money See More
      February 25, 2010 at 11:59am
    • Steve Smith
      Also as I understand it there is a policy in place that gives a carbon reducing factory or business the ability to sell that reduction to another company so that they can pollute more, I really don't care if global warming is because of co2... it frankly pisses me off when half hearted bits of science true or not get rammed down our throats and threats of the destruction of life on earth when the government don't take it as seriously as they tout. my own government for example led us into a war killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people and moan they've lost a few hundred because their from the same country, were all human at the end of it and an Iraqi life or a whale or a rain forest are no diffrent yet they still kill and mame for oil or meat or self ritiousness or anything else that might make them rich, and we just go along with it. I don'take these comment just because I don't beloved in it, I just look at the bigger picture and feel nothing but disgust for the best part of my species. I only hope at times that there will be a big cataclysm like that of a solar flare wiping out technology or some kind disaster like in the 2012 debates as at times it feels like it's the only way we'll learn as a species to respect what we have. So I'm sorry if you dissagree friend I really do but I just ask you try and see what else is going on as a whole and not just one drop in a bucket compared to the rest of the atorcities committed on this planet. See More
      February 25, 2010 at 12:17pm
    • Ian Gallagher Thanks for your comments.
      February 25, 2010 at 12:45pm