You can't have your banana and eat it deur Dr Dan Roodt

Post #1
Vrye wroteon October 29, 2008 at 1:09am
By Dr. Dan Roodt
In his “Wrath of Dethroned White Males” Professor Malegapuru Makgoba has dared to offer a biological explanation for the power structure that prevails in the new South Africa. According to him, the white male has been “dethroned” and should now learn to adapt to a subservient, even submissive, role within our society.
Until now, Social Darwinism or the model of society as a competition for resources where the fittest will survive and prosper, has often been associated with notions of European superiority. After all, Europeans from a minute area in north-western Europe managed to get on to little sailing boats to colonise and rule the greater part of the Earth for a few hundred years. Britain is said to have conquered 100-million people in the Indian sub-continent with 800 soldiers and 2 000 Indian auxiliaries.
Makgoba’s view of African male dominance therefore represents a novel departure from a previously Eurocentric idea. However, he is not the first South African to take an interest in biological explanations for human behaviour or politics. Two of his predecessors would be Eugene Marais and Jan Smuts.
Marais was keen on the study of primates, especially baboons, and wrote two books about them, The Soul of the Ape and Burgers van die Berge. The great Afrikaner physician, journalist, poet and intellectual stressed the similarity between human and baboon behaviour, including an occurrence where he observed human boys and young baboons playing together, making clay figures and imitating one another.
This extraordinary incident is recounted in Burgers van die Berge. It fits in with Makgoba’s view that imitation and “aping” are normal features of both human and baboon societies. Nowhere would Marais, however, advance the notion that imitation was solely linked to hierarchy and dominance.
Makgoba is perhaps the leading theoretical Africanist in our country today. I am sorry, therefore, to bother him with Eurocentric logic, but his argument represents a tautology. Because black males are in power, he deduces that they are both dominant and “fitter” than white males. However, it could be that they are dominant for reasons other than their fitness. [Emphasis added]
Not so long ago, Mathatha Tsedu, the then editor of the Sunday Times, caused quite a ripple when he wrote in his column on July 13 2003 that black men sometimes display a lack of prowess. He quoted an anonymous Cabinet member who had told him: “When you come from where we come from and you then have to realise that if you want something done quickly you have to rely on whites, it is really debilitating. You bleed internally, but our very own comrades do not work. There is generally no work ethic.”
Of course, there could be a debate about what attributes an alpha male should have in human society. Should he be intelligent, physically strong or both? Should he be a good manager, highly numerate and literate, disciplined and with a good work ethic? Or are these but the traits of a tame white baboon and are universal criteria for primate success such as aggression, reproductive prowess and dominant behaviour more important?
Makgoba’s assessment leans toward the latter interpretation. However, I do not think that the same conditions of Darwinian survival pertain in the human world as opposed to the animal world. Human beings display altruistic behaviour uncommon in many species so that they would not necessarily subjugate the weaker members of their society as happens in a primate hierarchy.
Take the nuclear project at Pelindaba that existed under the previous government, for example. A handful of white Afrikaner males produced six nuclear bombs, deadly enough to kill millions of people in one fell swoop. In a straight Darwinian contest, they should have used that power to eliminate their black male rivals forever, thereby ensuring their own dominance within Makgoba’s scheme of rivalry between white and black males. Yet not only did they refrain from using the bombs, but they handed over power to the black males and peacefully dismantled their own lethal weapons.
Biologically speaking, such behaviour is absurd. No male baboon would be caught dead playing into the hands of his rival. Yet this is precisely what we have seen in South Africa.
At another level, however, one could argue that a form of social Darwinism is still operative at every level in a capitalist society where individuals and companies are selected for fitness through economic competition. This leads to a further contradiction in Makgoba’s argument, for while exalting black male fitness over white male weakness, he insists on affirmative action and black economic empowerment.
Because of racial-preference measures in our society, Darwinian competition, even at the more civilised economic level —as opposed to brute contests with bared teeth and flailing limbs —is flawed.
Either black males such as Makgoba will have to discard racial preference so that the real Darwinian contest may begin, or they will have to continue invoking sympathy for the poor, downtrodden black male having been disadvantaged by centuries of colonial oppression and racism. In other words, they will have to choose between Darwinism and altruism.
As they would say in the baboon world: you can’t have your banana and eat it.
In his “Wrath of Dethroned White Males” Professor Malegapuru Makgoba has dared to offer a biological explanation for the power structure that prevails in the new South Africa. According to him, the white male has been “dethroned” and should now learn to adapt to a subservient, even submissive, role within our society.
Until now, Social Darwinism or the model of society as a competition for resources where the fittest will survive and prosper, has often been associated with notions of European superiority. After all, Europeans from a minute area in north-western Europe managed to get on to little sailing boats to colonise and rule the greater part of the Earth for a few hundred years. Britain is said to have conquered 100-million people in the Indian sub-continent with 800 soldiers and 2 000 Indian auxiliaries.
Makgoba’s view of African male dominance therefore represents a novel departure from a previously Eurocentric idea. However, he is not the first South African to take an interest in biological explanations for human behaviour or politics. Two of his predecessors would be Eugene Marais and Jan Smuts.
Marais was keen on the study of primates, especially baboons, and wrote two books about them, The Soul of the Ape and Burgers van die Berge. The great Afrikaner physician, journalist, poet and intellectual stressed the similarity between human and baboon behaviour, including an occurrence where he observed human boys and young baboons playing together, making clay figures and imitating one another.
This extraordinary incident is recounted in Burgers van die Berge. It fits in with Makgoba’s view that imitation and “aping” are normal features of both human and baboon societies. Nowhere would Marais, however, advance the notion that imitation was solely linked to hierarchy and dominance.
Makgoba is perhaps the leading theoretical Africanist in our country today. I am sorry, therefore, to bother him with Eurocentric logic, but his argument represents a tautology. Because black males are in power, he deduces that they are both dominant and “fitter” than white males. However, it could be that they are dominant for reasons other than their fitness. [Emphasis added]
Not so long ago, Mathatha Tsedu, the then editor of the Sunday Times, caused quite a ripple when he wrote in his column on July 13 2003 that black men sometimes display a lack of prowess. He quoted an anonymous Cabinet member who had told him: “When you come from where we come from and you then have to realise that if you want something done quickly you have to rely on whites, it is really debilitating. You bleed internally, but our very own comrades do not work. There is generally no work ethic.”
Of course, there could be a debate about what attributes an alpha male should have in human society. Should he be intelligent, physically strong or both? Should he be a good manager, highly numerate and literate, disciplined and with a good work ethic? Or are these but the traits of a tame white baboon and are universal criteria for primate success such as aggression, reproductive prowess and dominant behaviour more important?
Makgoba’s assessment leans toward the latter interpretation. However, I do not think that the same conditions of Darwinian survival pertain in the human world as opposed to the animal world. Human beings display altruistic behaviour uncommon in many species so that they would not necessarily subjugate the weaker members of their society as happens in a primate hierarchy.
Take the nuclear project at Pelindaba that existed under the previous government, for example. A handful of white Afrikaner males produced six nuclear bombs, deadly enough to kill millions of people in one fell swoop. In a straight Darwinian contest, they should have used that power to eliminate their black male rivals forever, thereby ensuring their own dominance within Makgoba’s scheme of rivalry between white and black males. Yet not only did they refrain from using the bombs, but they handed over power to the black males and peacefully dismantled their own lethal weapons.
Biologically speaking, such behaviour is absurd. No male baboon would be caught dead playing into the hands of his rival. Yet this is precisely what we have seen in South Africa.
At another level, however, one could argue that a form of social Darwinism is still operative at every level in a capitalist society where individuals and companies are selected for fitness through economic competition. This leads to a further contradiction in Makgoba’s argument, for while exalting black male fitness over white male weakness, he insists on affirmative action and black economic empowerment.
Because of racial-preference measures in our society, Darwinian competition, even at the more civilised economic level —as opposed to brute contests with bared teeth and flailing limbs —is flawed.
Either black males such as Makgoba will have to discard racial preference so that the real Darwinian contest may begin, or they will have to continue invoking sympathy for the poor, downtrodden black male having been disadvantaged by centuries of colonial oppression and racism. In other words, they will have to choose between Darwinism and altruism.
As they would say in the baboon world: you can’t have your banana and eat it.

Post #2
Ernest wroteon October 29, 2008 at 1:47am
Fact: Makgoba is a racist. Proof of this is his unerring and unending diatribe vilifying white people. The best medicine for him is for ALL thinking humans to ignore the idiot. Or, engage him exclusively on the so-called 'verboten' issues: ie. Why is it that the perpetrators of 99,9% of ALL violent crime committed in SA are black adult males? Or why, hundreds of years after being presented with the gift of the pen, black cultures (tribes) have still to develop - even superficially - the writing of their OWN languages? Of course, Makgoba will NEVER debate these (or many other) issues, but bringing them up helps to shut the fool up for a while.

Post #3
Walter wroteon November 6, 2008 at 5:20am
You will be on top of the food chain if you can trick others to belief that you belong at the top.
He is weak but clever, he let others believe expecialy the White Afrikaans speaking population that we are at the bottom of the food chain.
To beat him at his own game, we must play by the rules, we must just change the interpritation of the rules to suit us and not him or his kind.
He is weak but clever, he let others believe expecialy the White Afrikaans speaking population that we are at the bottom of the food chain.
To beat him at his own game, we must play by the rules, we must just change the interpritation of the rules to suit us and not him or his kind.

Post #4
Vrye wroteon November 6, 2008 at 6:54am
Julle is welkom om Afrikaans te praat.

Post #5
1 reply
Pieter wroteon November 16, 2008 at 5:00am
Waar le waarheid? Mag of die persepsie van mag. Iemand het eendag gese:" To err is human, to forgive is devine." Die persepsie van mag is dat die swartman regeer. Die realiteit is die witman regeer. Die persepsie is dat mag in die swartman se hand gegee is, realiteit se dat mag in die hand van die witman versterk is. Tydens die isolasie era is wit Afrikaner mans gekniehalter deur die persepsie van mag. Ons was vasgevang, geisoleer hier aan die suidpunt van Afrika, met selfopgelegde beperkings op wereldwye prestasie moontlikhede. Waar is die wit Afrikanerman vandag? Hulle wen olimpiese goue medajes, rugby wereldbekers, vlieg in die buitenste ruimte so kan ek maar opnoem. Realiteit is dat wit Afrikanerman aan die swartman gegee het, dit wat hom teruggehou het. 'n Konsep wat die Amerikaners ook nou gesnap het. Wat die geleerde professor nog nie snap nie is dat die ANC sy eie mense moes martel en moor om aan bewind te kom en nou het hy 'n generasie van swakelinge geerf om te regeer. Die wit Afrikaner man is uiteindelik vry om sy volle potensiaal te verwesenlik. Vandag kan ons kies of ons hier, Australie of Europa wil bly. Ja, ware mag le daarin dat ons meesters van ons eie toekoms geword het.

Post #6
Vrye replied to Pieter's poston November 17, 2008 at 8:53am
Ek veronderstel dat as mens op die een of ander manier verkragting en moord kan uitskakel, jy nogal 'n stewige punt beet het.

Post #7
Pieter wroteon November 17, 2008 at 11:00am
Dis juis die punt,wit mans het nie nodig om hul mag deur verkragting en moord ten toon te stel nie. Ongelukkig is nou maar deel van Afrika, daai primitiewe drang na fisiese dominansie, ek sidder om te dink wat sal gebeur as ons die antieke Germaanse en Noorse natuur in ons bloed vrye teuels gee.

Post #8
Annette wroteon November 17, 2008 at 10:39pm
Ongelukkig moet ek effens van jou verskil Pieter. Jy maak wel 'n goeie punt maar In realiteit besit ons nou net die vryheid van keuse. Ja - Ons kan wel kies waar ons onsself "noodgedwonge" in die wêreld wil vestig om die verwoestende en byna ondraagbare omstandighede in ons land vry te spring.
Maar ons is beslis nie vry nie! Ons is slawe aan die hand van 'n regime wat die laaste druppel bloed uit ons gaan suig. Al wat ons die voorsprong gee is ons vermoë om te kan oorleef...juis daai gene waarvan jy praat...maar oorleef en leef is twee baie verskillende begrippe.
Maar ons is beslis nie vry nie! Ons is slawe aan die hand van 'n regime wat die laaste druppel bloed uit ons gaan suig. Al wat ons die voorsprong gee is ons vermoë om te kan oorleef...juis daai gene waarvan jy praat...maar oorleef en leef is twee baie verskillende begrippe.

Post #9
1 reply
Pieter wroteon November 18, 2008 at 9:54am
Anette, jy is reg. As ek egter kyk na die kwaliteit lewe wat die meeste van ons lei en ek kyk na die kwaliteit lewe wat ons 20 jaar terug geleef het. Moet ek se: Tye het het baie verander, tog dieselfde gebly!!!!! Baie van ons mense kry baie swaar, ek sien dit elke dag! Die meerderheid egter is baie beter af. In die woorde van Bart Nell: "My kry julle nie!!" Ons Afrikanervolkie het te hard geveg, te veel gebloei, te veel karrakter en trots om ooit enige regime se slaaf te wees. Soos baie voor my, het ek ook vir my land en my volk gebloei, net soos die wat lank na my sal kom, en dit is wat my vrymaak. Soos Totius se:" Want oor die wonde druppel die salf van eie gom."

Post #10
1 reply
Annette wroteon November 20, 2008 at 5:57am
Ek hoor jou Pieter, ja dan net so! Maar...dink jy ons is nog bereid om weer te bloei wonder ek. Dit is een van die vereistes vir die oorlewing van 'n volk ~ 'n bereidwilligheid om vir jou identiteit en eie te sterf.
Ons onthou tog almal:
"Soet is die stryd van die stryder, selfs al moet hy verloor.
Maar hy wat opsystaan en sy aandeel weier, dit is die man wat sy volk vermoor!"
~ I D du Plessis
Ons onthou tog almal:
"Soet is die stryd van die stryder, selfs al moet hy verloor.
Maar hy wat opsystaan en sy aandeel weier, dit is die man wat sy volk vermoor!"
~ I D du Plessis

Post #11
Vrye replied to Annette's poston November 20, 2008 at 6:01am
As ek kyk na hoe karig die steun vir 'n eie volkstaat is onder Afrikaners, dan dink ek nie dit gaan 'n besonder groot area beslaan nie.

Post #12
Annette wroteon November 20, 2008 at 6:08am
Ek stem saam...maar dalk lê almal net laag.

Post #13
Pieter wroteon November 20, 2008 at 6:27am
Die Afrikaner revolusie gaan nie meer met geweer en kruit kom nie, hy kom vanuit die buiteland en ry op die rug van 'n bul. Die dag as ons ekonomie platval, soos met Zimbabwe, dan sal die tyd regwees. 'n Volkstaat was nog nooit 'n realiteit nie, nie as die land in toetaliteit joune is nie. Piet Retief en Kodesa het ons geleer wat gebeur as ons met kompromiee tevrede is.

Post #14
Annette wroteon November 21, 2008 at 1:34am
Ja net so...jy staan by my vuur!

Post #15
Pieter wroteon November 23, 2008 at 4:43am
Dito Anette. Ek kan nie saamleef met die idee dat ek in my land, wat deur bloed en trane gekoop is, nou moet berus by net 'n gedeelte van my land nie. Suid-Afrika is my land, die hele Suid-Afrika!!!!!!

Post #16
Leonard wroteon November 28, 2008 at 9:02am
Sorry , maar ek weet nie hoe ons geregtelik aanspraak het op die hele SA nie

Post #17
Pieter wroteon December 1, 2008 at 12:02pm
Geregtelike aanspraak, sal nagevors moet word in historiese argiewe. In kort sou ek se dat dit daarop neerkom dat die Britse Koloniale owerheid die gebied vanaf Kaappunt tot by die Oranjerivier geanekseer het, daarna die gebied van Natal. Met die Boere-oorloe is die ou Transvaal en Vrystaat ook deel van Britse grondgebied gemaak, wat later met Unie-wording Suid-Afrika geword het en reeds later met Republiekwording een land geword het. Geregtlik reken ek dat dit maar is hoe die hele Suid-Afrika een geword het, dus die regerende party maak geregtlik aanspraak op die hele Suid-Afrika.
Volgens burgerskapregte glo ek ook dat ek 'n Suid-Afrikaanse burger is, en nie 'n Volkstaat-burger is nie, aldus my reg tot aanspraak op die hele Suid-Afrika.
Volgens burgerskapregte glo ek ook dat ek 'n Suid-Afrikaanse burger is, en nie 'n Volkstaat-burger is nie, aldus my reg tot aanspraak op die hele Suid-Afrika.

Post #18
Marietjie wroteon March 25, 2009 at 3:45am
Ek gaan ook nie tevrede wees net met 'n klein stukkie van ons land wat ONS VOLK terloops van die begin af op die harde manier moes tem, net om elke keer wanneer dit mooi opgebou was, dit keer op keer te moet afgee aan eers die Engelse en toe later die ANC nie.
Genade mense, waar is ons GUTS dan - daardie einste Germaanse en Noorse bloed!
Ons almal weet ons is 'n sterk volk, mense met verstand én krag, maar ons sit soos bang kleutertjies terug en laat die boelies elke keer ons lekkergoed afneem...
Genade mense, waar is ons GUTS dan - daardie einste Germaanse en Noorse bloed!
Ons almal weet ons is 'n sterk volk, mense met verstand én krag, maar ons sit soos bang kleutertjies terug en laat die boelies elke keer ons lekkergoed afneem...

Post #19
Annette wroteon March 26, 2009 at 12:18am
Marietjie - dagse nuwe vriendin van my siel! Ek is oortuig dat die hele "visuele" ervaring in Bophuthatswana met daai twee op hul knieë voor hulle Merc die ding gedoen het. Nie dat dit my nou enigsins intimideer nie. Maar ek is seker dit het 'n baie diep skudding in die siel van die Boere gelaat. Die wonderlike ding van rewolusie is dat as "almal" niks mee het om te verloor nie...sal hulle geen keuse hê nie. Dis 'n kwessie van tyd en plek...die regte tyd en plek =D

Post #20
Marietjie wroteon March 27, 2009 at 2:30am
Ons verstaan mekaar mooi :-)
Ja, GEDULD moet nie verwar word met lamsakkigheid nie, maar dan moet mense wel begin saamwerk - en gereed wees wanneer die regte tyd daar is, en hulle moet almal saam wees op die regte plek...
Nie perongeluk by die verkeerde adres gaan aanklop nie:-)
Ja, GEDULD moet nie verwar word met lamsakkigheid nie, maar dan moet mense wel begin saamwerk - en gereed wees wanneer die regte tyd daar is, en hulle moet almal saam wees op die regte plek...
Nie perongeluk by die verkeerde adres gaan aanklop nie:-)

Post #21
1 reply
Donovan wroteon March 27, 2009 at 3:38am
Indien historiese grondbesit die alfa en omega is, hoekom gee Amerika nie hulle land terug aan die Indiane nie. Die blankes is nog maar 'n paar honderd jaar daar, en die blankes het die swartes daar ingevoer.
Hmm .. miskien - net miskien - is dit nou hulle land omdat hulle dit verower en getem het (soos Marietjie noem), en omdat hulle al die infrastruktuur daar gevestig het.
Indien iemand kan bewys hoekom historiese grondbesit wel die alfa en omega is, sal ek graag 'n studie wil sien wat toon watter areas van SA eerste deur swartes en blankes onderskeidelik bewoon was (nomadiese stamme uitgesluit).
As ek reg onthou het ek op skool geleer dat die blankes die eerste swartes eers by een of ander rivier in die Oos-Kaap teëgekom het (Visrivier dalk?). Dus praat ons van 'n redelike massiewe area hier waar geen swartes reeds gevestig was nie. Ek wonder hoe het die binneland gelyk.
Hmm .. miskien - net miskien - is dit nou hulle land omdat hulle dit verower en getem het (soos Marietjie noem), en omdat hulle al die infrastruktuur daar gevestig het.
Indien iemand kan bewys hoekom historiese grondbesit wel die alfa en omega is, sal ek graag 'n studie wil sien wat toon watter areas van SA eerste deur swartes en blankes onderskeidelik bewoon was (nomadiese stamme uitgesluit).
As ek reg onthou het ek op skool geleer dat die blankes die eerste swartes eers by een of ander rivier in die Oos-Kaap teëgekom het (Visrivier dalk?). Dus praat ons van 'n redelike massiewe area hier waar geen swartes reeds gevestig was nie. Ek wonder hoe het die binneland gelyk.

Post #22
Vrye replied to Donovan's poston March 27, 2009 at 3:55am
//Ek wonder hoe het die binneland gelyk.//
Soos 'n Jo'burg Taxirank minus die taxi's?
Soos 'n Jo'burg Taxirank minus die taxi's?

Post #23
Reinout wroteon March 27, 2009 at 11:36am
Hahaha :-) Julle het beschaving gebring naar Afrika. Nou skiet die swartes met AK-47 en Beretta in plaats van pyl en boog.

Post #24
1 reply
Marietjie wroteon March 28, 2009 at 1:31pm
... en hulle vat ons gewere weg - dus moet ons miskien die pyl en boog nader trek... Dit het gewerk vir Robin Hood...
Ter inligting, die swartes kom oorspronklik van Nigerië af, en hulle het seker gemaak hulle maak hulle pad skoon so ver hulle getrek het. En dit was beslis nie op die polities-korrekte manier van ons tyd nie.
Eienaarskap word glo deesdae deur bevolking syfers bepaal. Iets om te onthou.
Terloops, Reinout - die spoed waarop die Marokane Europa "bevolk", dui op 'n duidelike oordrag van eienaarskap binne die afsienbare toekoms. Ons hoop Europa leer uit SA se foute.
Ter inligting, die swartes kom oorspronklik van Nigerië af, en hulle het seker gemaak hulle maak hulle pad skoon so ver hulle getrek het. En dit was beslis nie op die polities-korrekte manier van ons tyd nie.
Eienaarskap word glo deesdae deur bevolking syfers bepaal. Iets om te onthou.
Terloops, Reinout - die spoed waarop die Marokane Europa "bevolk", dui op 'n duidelike oordrag van eienaarskap binne die afsienbare toekoms. Ons hoop Europa leer uit SA se foute.

Post #25
1 reply
Donovan wroteon March 30, 2009 at 12:39am
"Eienaarskap word glo deesdae deur bevolking syfers bepaal."
So die Afrikaner sal moet begin teel!
So die Afrikaner sal moet begin teel!

Post #26
Vrye replied to Donovan's poston March 30, 2009 at 4:22am
Mens sou dink dat 'n volk wat so baie naai soos ons sal meer kinders he, maar ons het nie.

Post #27
1 reply
Donovan wroteon March 30, 2009 at 7:29am
Die fout lê by die dames.

Post #28
Reinout replied to Marietjie's poston March 30, 2009 at 7:36am
Jy's nie die enige wat dit hoop nie Marietjie. Ek hoop dit ook. Maar helaas, history is doomed to repeat itself. Ek vrees vir Wes-Europa se toekoms. Ek vrees daar is geen meer. Dalk gaan ons almal eindig in Australie.

Post #29
Reinout replied to Donovan's poston March 30, 2009 at 7:38am
Om dit te sê in die woorde van Paus Benedictus XVI: die fout lê in die gebruik van kondooms. Dalk kan julle 'n voorbeel neem aan die ou Boere van vroeër tye. Kyk naar Oom Paul. Hoe baie kinders en kleinkinders het hy nie gehad nie? Het julle soveel?

Post #30
Marietjie wroteon March 30, 2009 at 7:43am
Hey, ek het 4 kinders, en my sewende kleinkind kom September!
Dus maak dit my in alle opsigte 'n voorbeeldige Boer :-)
Dus maak dit my in alle opsigte 'n voorbeeldige Boer :-)


