email list taken from "Burma Dirty List" website
Post #1
9 replies
Neil wroteon September 27, 2007 at 3:53am
These are all the email addresses listed at http://www.burmacampaign.o
of companies dealing with Burma.
Get emailing!
info@worldawaytravels.com;
of companies dealing with Burma.
Get emailing!
info@worldawaytravels.com;
Post #2
7 replies
Anthea replied to Neil's poston September 27, 2007 at 10:35am
Hi - some of the email addresses in the list above will bounce. Also, a number of the companies listed (eg Taiga Consultants) no longer operate in Burma.
However, I received this reply from an employee of Ivanhoe Mines:
"Please do not stick your nose into other peoples business.
Look what it did for George Bush.
If you have been to Myanmar and talked to the people personally please tell me.
Otherwise you do not know what you are talking about.
In all our work and travels in Burma we have never run into the so-called atrocities that the meddlers and world improvers charge the government with doing.
Companies like Ivanhoe and other mining companies do all they can to help the people that work for them and improve their lives.
I do not necessarily agree with the type and form of govt in Myanmar but I also believe we should not make the people suffer more by cutting off their contact with the outside world by imposing sanctions. Sanctions have a bad record of harming the people and not doing much to hurt the govt.
Besides, I also do not want to tell the people what to do - it is up to them to solve their problems and we can help them by making their lives easier not impoverishing them.
Look what a mess G.W. Bush is in for trying to tell the Iraqi people what to do??
thank you for your concern."
However, I received this reply from an employee of Ivanhoe Mines:
"Please do not stick your nose into other peoples business.
Look what it did for George Bush.
If you have been to Myanmar and talked to the people personally please tell me.
Otherwise you do not know what you are talking about.
In all our work and travels in Burma we have never run into the so-called atrocities that the meddlers and world improvers charge the government with doing.
Companies like Ivanhoe and other mining companies do all they can to help the people that work for them and improve their lives.
I do not necessarily agree with the type and form of govt in Myanmar but I also believe we should not make the people suffer more by cutting off their contact with the outside world by imposing sanctions. Sanctions have a bad record of harming the people and not doing much to hurt the govt.
Besides, I also do not want to tell the people what to do - it is up to them to solve their problems and we can help them by making their lives easier not impoverishing them.
Look what a mess G.W. Bush is in for trying to tell the Iraqi people what to do??
thank you for your concern."
Post #3
1 reply
Teresa replied to Anthea's poston September 27, 2007 at 10:41am
Yeah, I got the first bit initially, and the more conciliatory bit after replying. I've replied again, so may get an update.
Post #4
Anthea replied to Teresa's poston September 27, 2007 at 10:49am
Grand. I've replied as well.
Incidentally, for anyone else here in Norway, Amnesty is also running an SMS campaign tomorrow. Details here:
http://www.amnesty.no/web.
Incidentally, for anyone else here in Norway, Amnesty is also running an SMS campaign tomorrow. Details here:
http://www.amnesty.no/web.
Post #5
Ruth replied to Anthea's poston September 27, 2007 at 10:53am
"Companies like Ivanhoe and other mining companies do all they can to help the people that work for them and improve their lives."
And what would that be, then? I mean beyond propping up the most corrupt government in the world. I'm all ears...
Wot a WANKER.
"so-called atrocities that the meddlers and world improvers charge the government with doing".
Er. Those meddlers would be the democratically elected head of state, lots of monks and the 500,000 people who have fled the country. Oh, and everyone who got shot and beaten today. Yeah, and them...
"I also believe we should not make the people suffer more by cutting off their contact with the outside world by imposing sanctions."
Too late, gov't are busy turning off the internet and the phones. So clearly they're as fussed about 'contact with the outside world' as you are.
TWUNT!
What's this idiot's email address?
And what would that be, then? I mean beyond propping up the most corrupt government in the world. I'm all ears...
Wot a WANKER.
"so-called atrocities that the meddlers and world improvers charge the government with doing".
Er. Those meddlers would be the democratically elected head of state, lots of monks and the 500,000 people who have fled the country. Oh, and everyone who got shot and beaten today. Yeah, and them...
"I also believe we should not make the people suffer more by cutting off their contact with the outside world by imposing sanctions."
Too late, gov't are busy turning off the internet and the phones. So clearly they're as fussed about 'contact with the outside world' as you are.
TWUNT!
What's this idiot's email address?
Post #6
1 reply
Rachel replied to Neil's poston September 27, 2007 at 10:57am
All done mate. Thanks for highlighting this is something we can all do!! :0) Here is what I wrote to them:
Dear Sir or Madam;
I am writing to you in regards to your companies current position in Burma. I am disgusted at the human rights abuses that are happening and urge you to pull ALL sourcing and/or investment from this horrid regime. It is not possible to do business in Burma without directly supporting the military government and its pervasive violations of human rights. The international media have reported on this situation extensively over the past few days especially and due to this were also subject to attacks from Junta (please see the following link to the BBC website for confirmation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi
It is an outrage that companies like your selfs continue to support this regime whether directly or indirectly through your trade, I for one and many others that I know of will be boycotting all of your products until you recognize that money is not everything, especially when people and MONKS, of all people are being killed for wanting democracy. This is capitalism gone mad.
I look forward to your response and ask you to find it in your heart to support the Burmese people is this terrible time rather than the regime which continues to exploit it's people and kills innocents. I ask you to think about how you would feel if a member of your family or yourself were to complain about a product/service/government
Yours faithfully,
Rachel Honey-Jones
If anyone else is doing this PLEASE DO NOT COPY AND PASTE MY EMAIL! Purely because if the companies see people have taken the time and effort to write their own emails then they will start to take notice. PLease seehttp://www.burmacampaign.o
on the left hand column for more details :0) Good luck guys!!!!!!!! We need to do all we can!!!
Dear Sir or Madam;
I am writing to you in regards to your companies current position in Burma. I am disgusted at the human rights abuses that are happening and urge you to pull ALL sourcing and/or investment from this horrid regime. It is not possible to do business in Burma without directly supporting the military government and its pervasive violations of human rights. The international media have reported on this situation extensively over the past few days especially and due to this were also subject to attacks from Junta (please see the following link to the BBC website for confirmation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi
It is an outrage that companies like your selfs continue to support this regime whether directly or indirectly through your trade, I for one and many others that I know of will be boycotting all of your products until you recognize that money is not everything, especially when people and MONKS, of all people are being killed for wanting democracy. This is capitalism gone mad.
I look forward to your response and ask you to find it in your heart to support the Burmese people is this terrible time rather than the regime which continues to exploit it's people and kills innocents. I ask you to think about how you would feel if a member of your family or yourself were to complain about a product/service/government
Yours faithfully,
Rachel Honey-Jones
If anyone else is doing this PLEASE DO NOT COPY AND PASTE MY EMAIL! Purely because if the companies see people have taken the time and effort to write their own emails then they will start to take notice. PLease seehttp://www.burmacampaign.o
on the left hand column for more details :0) Good luck guys!!!!!!!! We need to do all we can!!!
Post #7
2 replies
Teresa replied to Rachel's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:01am
Have also recieved this from Trailblazers:
Do you know what our 'ties' are with the government or are you just doing what the Burma Action Group is telling you to do without considering that this may not be such a simple case?
We have no ties with the Burmese government and we agree that their regime commits some of the worst human rights atrocities in the modern world.
We have been put on the Burma Action Group's list because we publish a guidebook for backpackers to South-East Asia with a 30 page section on Burma. We tell travellers to avoid staying in government hotels and in this book we give the readers the facts so they can decide whether or not to go to Burma. As I'm sure you know, many people argue that it's important not to stop going to Burma so that local people can have links with the outside world but you should do everything you can to stop the money you spend going to the government. This is the view of many Burmese people although it is not the view of the opposition leader. This is what we say in the guide:
"BOYCOTT BURMA?
Given the repressive regime, many feel you 'shouldn't visit Burma until democracy does'. The idea is to choke off the hard currency that tourism brings. Visiting does, however, give locals a sense that they're not forgotten by the world outside. To minimize how much of your cash gets into government coffers:
Avoid taking trains Foreigner pricing funds the regime - many of the rail lines were built and repaired using forced labour, and anyway the service is unreliable.
Stay in non-government hotels where possible Most of the best cheap ones are private anyway. However, be careful about using unlicensed hotels or accepting hospitality from families. After you leave, your hosts may be arrested for their troubles, though you won't get to hear about it.
Try to avoid changing money at the airport (See Money p165).
If you do boycott Burma, you may consider it morally consistent to boycott Laos as well. In Burma at least the opposition exists, albeit disgracefully emasculated. In Laos the opposition has never been allowed to organize at all".
Does this mean we have ties with the Burmese government?
Do you know what our 'ties' are with the government or are you just doing what the Burma Action Group is telling you to do without considering that this may not be such a simple case?
We have no ties with the Burmese government and we agree that their regime commits some of the worst human rights atrocities in the modern world.
We have been put on the Burma Action Group's list because we publish a guidebook for backpackers to South-East Asia with a 30 page section on Burma. We tell travellers to avoid staying in government hotels and in this book we give the readers the facts so they can decide whether or not to go to Burma. As I'm sure you know, many people argue that it's important not to stop going to Burma so that local people can have links with the outside world but you should do everything you can to stop the money you spend going to the government. This is the view of many Burmese people although it is not the view of the opposition leader. This is what we say in the guide:
"BOYCOTT BURMA?
Given the repressive regime, many feel you 'shouldn't visit Burma until democracy does'. The idea is to choke off the hard currency that tourism brings. Visiting does, however, give locals a sense that they're not forgotten by the world outside. To minimize how much of your cash gets into government coffers:
Avoid taking trains Foreigner pricing funds the regime - many of the rail lines were built and repaired using forced labour, and anyway the service is unreliable.
Stay in non-government hotels where possible Most of the best cheap ones are private anyway. However, be careful about using unlicensed hotels or accepting hospitality from families. After you leave, your hosts may be arrested for their troubles, though you won't get to hear about it.
Try to avoid changing money at the airport (See Money p165).
If you do boycott Burma, you may consider it morally consistent to boycott Laos as well. In Burma at least the opposition exists, albeit disgracefully emasculated. In Laos the opposition has never been allowed to organize at all".
Does this mean we have ties with the Burmese government?
Post #8
Ruth replied to Teresa's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:12am
Trailblazer Guides
Trailblazer Guides publishes a guide to South East Asia that includes a section on Burma. This section facilitates tourism to the country. Aung San Suu Kyi has asked tourists not to visit Burma because it helps fund the regime and gives it legitimacy. Forced and child labour was used to develop many tourist facilities.
Managing Director
Trailblazer Publications
The Old Manse, Tower Rd
Hindhead
Surrey GU26 6SU
Fax: 01428 607571
Email: info@trailblazer-guides.co
Trailblazers have a point, you know. I'm thinking if I'm going to send out emails, I'm gonna read through the reasons first, and then send them one by one...
Trailblazer Guides publishes a guide to South East Asia that includes a section on Burma. This section facilitates tourism to the country. Aung San Suu Kyi has asked tourists not to visit Burma because it helps fund the regime and gives it legitimacy. Forced and child labour was used to develop many tourist facilities.
Managing Director
Trailblazer Publications
The Old Manse, Tower Rd
Hindhead
Surrey GU26 6SU
Fax: 01428 607571
Email: info@trailblazer-guides.co
Trailblazers have a point, you know. I'm thinking if I'm going to send out emails, I'm gonna read through the reasons first, and then send them one by one...
Post #9
2 replies
Rachel replied to Teresa's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:13am
Very very interesting, did you forward this reply to the Burma Campaign site?
Post #10
Teresa replied to Rachel's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:18am
I have now, thanks for reminding me!
Post #11
2 replies
Anthea replied to Rachel's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:20am
I'd suggest taking Burma Campaign's Mark Farmaner's comments from today's FT as a good basis for emailing. The paper quoted him as saying the only way to stop the generals is to "squeeze their balls" by restricting the trade of gas, timber and diamonds.
With that in mind, the dirty list does give the email addresses of timber, mining and energy players active in Burma.
If you're wanting to email oil and gas companies, the biggest investors in Burma are:
CNOOC Ltd (http://www.cnoocltd.com/en
With that in mind, the dirty list does give the email addresses of timber, mining and energy players active in Burma.
If you're wanting to email oil and gas companies, the biggest investors in Burma are:
CNOOC Ltd (http://www.cnoocltd.com/en
Post #12
1 reply
Ruth replied to Anthea's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:26am
From Total's website:
"In light of recent events unfolding in Myanmar, Total would like to restate its position regarding its presence in the country.
September 26, 2007
First of all, the Group would like to express its deep concern over the present situation, which it is monitoring very closely. Under these particular circumstances, Total is deploying heightened vigilance to ensure the safety of its employees. We hope that the current tensions facing the country will quickly subside and that solutions will be found in order to safeguard the population and protect human rights.
We are convinced that through our presence we are helping to improve the daily lives of tens of thousands of people who benefit from our social and economic initiatives. By promoting responsible behavior, our local teams can serve as a model for business and political leaders looking for ways to address the country's human rights issues.
We would like to thank all those who have encouraged us to pursue our actions to help the local people and enhance their well-being through the defense of common values. To those who ask us to leave the country, we reply that far from solving Myanmar's problems, a forced withdrawal would only lead to our replacement by other operators probably less committed to the ethical principles guiding all our initiatives. Our departure could cause the population even greater hardship and is thus an unacceptable risk."
The old arms dealer's "if we didn't do it, someone else would" line. But with an ethical twist to make it extra-special. Dontcha just love oil companies?
"In light of recent events unfolding in Myanmar, Total would like to restate its position regarding its presence in the country.
September 26, 2007
First of all, the Group would like to express its deep concern over the present situation, which it is monitoring very closely. Under these particular circumstances, Total is deploying heightened vigilance to ensure the safety of its employees. We hope that the current tensions facing the country will quickly subside and that solutions will be found in order to safeguard the population and protect human rights.
We are convinced that through our presence we are helping to improve the daily lives of tens of thousands of people who benefit from our social and economic initiatives. By promoting responsible behavior, our local teams can serve as a model for business and political leaders looking for ways to address the country's human rights issues.
We would like to thank all those who have encouraged us to pursue our actions to help the local people and enhance their well-being through the defense of common values. To those who ask us to leave the country, we reply that far from solving Myanmar's problems, a forced withdrawal would only lead to our replacement by other operators probably less committed to the ethical principles guiding all our initiatives. Our departure could cause the population even greater hardship and is thus an unacceptable risk."
The old arms dealer's "if we didn't do it, someone else would" line. But with an ethical twist to make it extra-special. Dontcha just love oil companies?
Post #13
Anthea replied to Ruth's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:29am
Sigh. It's the same old song. There is this as well:
"France's Total plans no new investment in Burma, the company said on Thursday.
However, the company defended again its presence there saying oil and gas reserves were not necessarily located in democracies.
France on Wednesday called for French private companies to freeze investment in the Asian country, which is facing its biggest protests in 20 years.
"We don't have heavy investments in this country and we don't plan any new investment there," a Total spokeswoman said. "
http://www.upstreamonline.
"France's Total plans no new investment in Burma, the company said on Thursday.
However, the company defended again its presence there saying oil and gas reserves were not necessarily located in democracies.
France on Wednesday called for French private companies to freeze investment in the Asian country, which is facing its biggest protests in 20 years.
"We don't have heavy investments in this country and we don't plan any new investment there," a Total spokeswoman said. "
http://www.upstreamonline.
Post #14
Adam wroteon September 27, 2007 at 11:34am
I got the same from Ivanhoe Mines. Professional.
Post #15
1 reply
Winsome wroteon September 27, 2007 at 12:04pm
This is the reply i received from Andrew Brock Travel
Thank you for your message. I feel very strongly about Burma, and can only be pleased when others do too, even when we come to opposite conclusions.
I represent the opinions of a good number of people within Burma who while strongly supporting Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's movement feel that she has made a tactical error in committing to a boycott of tourism, which is a large employer of semi-skilled and low-wage workers such as waiters, cleaners, drivers and ships' crew. This boycott has been pretty effective for the last 10 years, with under 5000 UK visitors to Burma every year, compared to, for instance, 90,000 to Vietnam last year. It appears to have had no impact on the military junta, while it has destroyed the incomes of those who have no dole, free education or free health service to fall back on.
That Myint, U Thant's grandson, puts this case more eloquently than I can in "The River of Lost Footsteps", and I recomend it to you if you have not already read it.
I am sure that any profit we make on sending people to Burma is more than offset by the amount of business we lose to other destinations as a result of our appearance on the Burma Black List. I am not though prepared to abandon those within Burma who really need what little help I am able to bring them.
We can both hope that the current uprising is successful in bringing about regime change.
Regards, Andrew Brock
Thank you for your message. I feel very strongly about Burma, and can only be pleased when others do too, even when we come to opposite conclusions.
I represent the opinions of a good number of people within Burma who while strongly supporting Daw Aung San Suu Kyi's movement feel that she has made a tactical error in committing to a boycott of tourism, which is a large employer of semi-skilled and low-wage workers such as waiters, cleaners, drivers and ships' crew. This boycott has been pretty effective for the last 10 years, with under 5000 UK visitors to Burma every year, compared to, for instance, 90,000 to Vietnam last year. It appears to have had no impact on the military junta, while it has destroyed the incomes of those who have no dole, free education or free health service to fall back on.
That Myint, U Thant's grandson, puts this case more eloquently than I can in "The River of Lost Footsteps", and I recomend it to you if you have not already read it.
I am sure that any profit we make on sending people to Burma is more than offset by the amount of business we lose to other destinations as a result of our appearance on the Burma Black List. I am not though prepared to abandon those within Burma who really need what little help I am able to bring them.
We can both hope that the current uprising is successful in bringing about regime change.
Regards, Andrew Brock
Post #16
3 replies
Jimmy wroteon September 27, 2007 at 12:25pm
Ok, before i say this, i'd just like to say, i do NOT support the military junta in Burma, and i am 100% behind the protesters.
HOWEVER, is trying to get countries to withdraw their investment really what we should be doing? all it does, as i believe some of the companies you have all emailed say, is affect the people whose livelihoods are dependent upon those various companies. For example, the mining company mentioned will employ Burmese citizens in their mines, and that money is not necessarily going to the government. If the country was arming for war, fair enough, imposing sanctions on war materials would be fair enough, but is it really going to have any effect on the government if these companies withdraw? Instead, the government will just take over the industries and nationalise them surely, which instead of helping the people of Burma will merely put them even further under government autocracy.
I may be hideously wrong in what i say, but i really doubt that attempting to persuade companies to withdraw investment will 1.) succeed or 2.) actually have a positive effect for the citizens.
Jim
HOWEVER, is trying to get countries to withdraw their investment really what we should be doing? all it does, as i believe some of the companies you have all emailed say, is affect the people whose livelihoods are dependent upon those various companies. For example, the mining company mentioned will employ Burmese citizens in their mines, and that money is not necessarily going to the government. If the country was arming for war, fair enough, imposing sanctions on war materials would be fair enough, but is it really going to have any effect on the government if these companies withdraw? Instead, the government will just take over the industries and nationalise them surely, which instead of helping the people of Burma will merely put them even further under government autocracy.
I may be hideously wrong in what i say, but i really doubt that attempting to persuade companies to withdraw investment will 1.) succeed or 2.) actually have a positive effect for the citizens.
Jim
Post #18
1 reply
Teresa replied to Jimmy's poston September 27, 2007 at 12:35pm
Your question is one I've wrestled with too Jimmy. Burmese friends of mine here tell me that corruption is endemic there, and the Generals steal wholesale from the people. They control everything, and it's impossible to talk about sectors of the economy that won't line the juntas pockets. Trade traps many into living on subsitence wages in a country which was once one of the richest in Asia in perpetuam.
The junta is arming for war, but against its own people. It spends 40% of GDP on the military.
For those reasons I believe economic actions are what will hurt this regime.
Not many companies do conduct business with Burma. I'm not sure whether emailing them will stop them that do, but it will express the strength of feeling on the issue, and the possible impact on their business.
The junta is arming for war, but against its own people. It spends 40% of GDP on the military.
For those reasons I believe economic actions are what will hurt this regime.
Not many companies do conduct business with Burma. I'm not sure whether emailing them will stop them that do, but it will express the strength of feeling on the issue, and the possible impact on their business.
Post #19
1 reply
Adam wroteon September 27, 2007 at 12:39pm
I've just had an email from Taiga Consultants Ltd (taigaltd@taiga-ltd.com on the list). Apparently they haven't had any dealings with Burma for several years. I don't know if that's strictly true or not, but there's not really any use sending them anything.
Post #20
1 reply
Jimmy replied to Teresa's poston September 27, 2007 at 12:44pm
Oh yeah, i know how the corrupt the government there is, i am not denying that, rather whether companies withdrawing will really have that effect.
I mean, say i was one of the Junta, and say that Ivanhoe industries pulled out their mining business. I would send in soldiers, take it over, and then use forced labour to man it. Same situation, only worse, surely? I know every section of the economy lines the Junta's pockets, but it also lines the peoples too, not necessarily hugely, but it certainly does more than if the businesses withdrew.
To be honest with you, if the west wishes to intervene, the only way they could do that is by diplomatic means or by a full scale invasion. And look what happened in iraq...
Its a lose-lose situation that really, only the Burmese people can ever end, and they are trapped by the Junta. I can really see no way out.
I mean, say i was one of the Junta, and say that Ivanhoe industries pulled out their mining business. I would send in soldiers, take it over, and then use forced labour to man it. Same situation, only worse, surely? I know every section of the economy lines the Junta's pockets, but it also lines the peoples too, not necessarily hugely, but it certainly does more than if the businesses withdrew.
To be honest with you, if the west wishes to intervene, the only way they could do that is by diplomatic means or by a full scale invasion. And look what happened in iraq...
Its a lose-lose situation that really, only the Burmese people can ever end, and they are trapped by the Junta. I can really see no way out.
Post #21
Rachel replied to Anthea's poston September 27, 2007 at 1:28pm
LOL Anthea I received the same and have shot back with a reply will keep the group posted. I have also forwarded to the BBC in hopes they may also cover this part of the story! Good luck all!
Post #22
Rachel replied to Adam's poston September 27, 2007 at 1:31pm
Also had the email from them as well, rather rude but understandable! :)
Post #23
1 reply
Dunstan replied to Jimmy's poston September 27, 2007 at 1:55pm
By operating a business in the country you automatically line the pockets of the junta, you can't win the contracts without massive kickbacks not to mention the hard currency the ex-pat employees bring into the country plus all the workers' wages get taxed. The regime can send in the troops and take over the mine but in order to run it at a profit they need econmic resources. They need hard currency to import parts and machinery to keep things ticking over they need expertise to manage the operations, engineers to troubleshoot. At first things'd go smoothly enough but without the ability to maintain the equipment they've nicked things would inevitably decay, production would decrease to the point where it no longer becomes profitable to run
Far better to let a foreign compnay run it, take all the risks and you take your cut of the profits.
As for an invasion you're right it would be a disaster as evidenced by Iraq, but how about other countries like South Africaor Chille where international pressure, consumer boycotts and sanctions eventually brough about an internal regime change?
Far better to let a foreign compnay run it, take all the risks and you take your cut of the profits.
As for an invasion you're right it would be a disaster as evidenced by Iraq, but how about other countries like South Africaor Chille where international pressure, consumer boycotts and sanctions eventually brough about an internal regime change?
Post deleted on September 27, 2007 at 2:07pm
Post #25
2 replies
Gregoire replied to Dunstan's poston September 27, 2007 at 2:10pm
I have lived in Burma and yes, you are right.
But on the other hand, low skilled people can get jobs working for foreigners. Expats and tourists are the only way for burmese people to get to the outside world.
In summer 2004, the US voted sanctions against Burma which forbid all imports from that country to the US: hundreds of garment factories closed down and the staff in those textiles factories (mostly women) lost their job; hundred of thousands of households just lost desesperatly needed wages (a civil-servant in Burma earns around USD 8/month). And plenty of women had to turn to prostitution to feed their families.
I love Burma and its people, but I am definitely not sure that making it even more secluded than it is would be a solution...
Besides boycott/sanctions will not really harm the generals: their money is already in Singapore or Kunming (China)...
I have no miracle solution, but the plain truth is that the thugs running Burma don't really care about external pressure: their knowledge of the outside world is very very limited.
I am not even certain China could have enough power to pressure the military junta. Burma is definetly a protégé of China, but not its liege. And the ASEAN has been lobbying the junta to make some changes for years without any effect...
But on the other hand, low skilled people can get jobs working for foreigners. Expats and tourists are the only way for burmese people to get to the outside world.
In summer 2004, the US voted sanctions against Burma which forbid all imports from that country to the US: hundreds of garment factories closed down and the staff in those textiles factories (mostly women) lost their job; hundred of thousands of households just lost desesperatly needed wages (a civil-servant in Burma earns around USD 8/month). And plenty of women had to turn to prostitution to feed their families.
I love Burma and its people, but I am definitely not sure that making it even more secluded than it is would be a solution...
Besides boycott/sanctions will not really harm the generals: their money is already in Singapore or Kunming (China)...
I have no miracle solution, but the plain truth is that the thugs running Burma don't really care about external pressure: their knowledge of the outside world is very very limited.
I am not even certain China could have enough power to pressure the military junta. Burma is definetly a protégé of China, but not its liege. And the ASEAN has been lobbying the junta to make some changes for years without any effect...
Post #26
Neil replied to 's poston September 27, 2007 at 2:21pm
I\'ve asked administrators of this group to remove email addresses of other companies that should not be on the list that I gave them (from the website quoted at top). <br /><br />However, Let\'s Go publish \"Let\'s Go South-East Asia\" which appears to be still in print - I\'m a bookseller, so will double check tomorrow before taking any further action.
Post #27
Neil replied to 's poston September 27, 2007 at 2:22pm
I've asked administrators of this group to remove email addresses of other companies that should not be on the list that I gave them (from the website quoted at top).
However, Let's Go publish "Let's Go South-East Asia" which appears to be still in print - I'm a bookseller, so will double check tomorrow before taking any further action.
However, Let's Go publish "Let's Go South-East Asia" which appears to be still in print - I'm a bookseller, so will double check tomorrow before taking any further action.
Post #28
1 reply
Dunstan replied to Gregoire's poston September 27, 2007 at 2:25pm
You seem to know more about it than me, it's a bit of a dilemma really, if you take the buisness away people starve if you trade with them you support the murderers in charge, I suppose the question is how self-sufficeint can any regime be? Right now the sanctions are a bit pointless because China and India are still happy to trade with them so sanctions have no signifigant impact on the macroeconomic situation and thus do little to destabilise the regime but do course unemployment etc where industries once existed. I don't know you're not gonna get China to stop trading with them and if , as you say, the regime wouldn't pay attention to pressure from them them anyway...maybe you could act to freeze the generals' bank accounts as was attempted with mugabe ...
Post #29
1 reply
Paul replied to Dunstan's poston September 27, 2007 at 2:40pm
I think the key thing is that the regime spends 40% of GDP on the military - a combination of weapons and men - that keeps them in power. If you can squeeze GDP you can squeeze the amount of money they have to spend on oppressing their own people.
If the front line soldiers and secret police start having pay cuts, financial hardship, redundancies and morale problems - if the unrest spreads to the military - the regime will lose it's grip on power very quickly.
The generals' bank accounts, however generous, will not feed an army for very long.
If the front line soldiers and secret police start having pay cuts, financial hardship, redundancies and morale problems - if the unrest spreads to the military - the regime will lose it's grip on power very quickly.
The generals' bank accounts, however generous, will not feed an army for very long.
Post #30
1 reply
Lara replied to Anthea's poston September 27, 2007 at 11:15pm
Normally, I'm all for non-interference, but it becomes a different story in Burma, where most of the money goes to the government anyway... and when people have consistently demonstrated that they do not want the current regime in power... I heard that other companies such as Nike have pulled out though, so some difference has been made.