Okay, I know that I just put up a post yesterday, but while I was playin I just thought of this.
Im kinda bored with PvE now that im level 24, because I dont see the point in Leveling up anymore. PvP is affected by levels, and since thats mostly what I do now, I dont see the point in leveling anymore.
My incentive up to Level 18 was to get new power moves. Does anyody have any good ideas for incentives to gain levels after like level 20? Or am I just missing the whole point of the game here?

Besides being able to brag about your level to anyone else?
Some cool looking weapons are found in higher level dungeons...

Gene is aware of the need for an incentive to level up. The power moves was his first step towards providing that incentive. My guess is that more reasons will follow.

But yes, some weps can only be found at higher level dungeons.

The weapons for one,


You will get pawned in certain teleports , unless you stay on a rock , for another reason.

When you get to about 35 you can hold your own in T5 tho


Several of us were hoping that one of the new teleports would be a very high level of monsters, say 100.

But thus far they have adapted to whatever level you are.

yeah sorry to say GENE is missing the point here..hes focusing on low lvl players when its RETAINING long term players that ensure its growth and stability
dont get me wrong here,gene does awesome work for SW,but he does need to cater for older te3rm players

Tania-Dragonslayer..grr fix the formula you use to random allocate weps to include ALL weps GENE plz plz

"Several of us were hoping that one of the new teleports would be a very high level of monsters, say 100.

But thus far they have adapted to whatever level you are. "

So if they adapt to whatever level you are then doesn't that help level 100 players? (and level 200 etc.)? I'm not sure I understand this feedback. If an island provides monsters that adapt to any level and provide rewards and experience based on that XP level isn't this a good thing? For me it means I can build content that can be played by all levels, low and high. I can still adjust for relative difficulty (so the Wolf Leader is harder to kill than a Wolf).

What then is the benifit of high level specific islands?

Well, one of the benefits would be having places where high-level players can hang out, without newbies or cloners (cause I don't think a cloner would waste their time leveling up from lvl 25 to lvl 100) harassing them.

And another benefit would be being able to actually level up on those islands, and being able to have quests there.

By the way, why don't Teleport 6 and 7 have any Quest Givers?

Well, my two cents on this thing is...

Level scaled islands are a good idea, and it's been proven also. T6 and T7 have players in them regulary, so the like them.

Though, one reason why those 'high' level players would want a special island to appease them, is that they won't have to deal with certain annoying players too much, and to somehow make them feel superior.

Though, it doesn't take long for a semi-witted person to figure out that a ROCK is a safe zone from monsters. So they could stand there and pester other players. Same goes for cloners, Andrei. They just stand on a rock, and go about their business.


But, I had an idea a while back, like...yeah, a long time ago, with a few other players. Have an island where level matters in PvP AND PvM.

I wouldn't know about risk of losing items, but levels mattering on one island in PvP would be sweet.

Because, newbs and such would get killed instantly by some high level player, which would hopefully make them annoyed, and then they would leave. Solving the problem for high leveled players there.


Just a little idea. The current way things work are just fine, though. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Well my idea would work if Gene would change the ways players are allowed to get to islands. Instead of making a suggestion when someone with a low lvl tries to enter the portal, don't let them get there at all.

just to put a little comment. in im a long term member but im only lvl 11 because i enjoy pvp. i really don't like PvE for 1 reason, on the internet i hate being alone. if we had an option to party quest that would be sweet.

You can do Olaf's Quests with friends in Tele 1. Just pick similar quests.

The talk about annoying players. Anyone possess the characteristic to be annoying. Plus anyone can do what a ''noob'' does at any time just to get back at you and get the better of you. So i find all this pretty pointless and besides the ignore button is always an option. I'm sure gene has it all planned out the right way.

I guess if your a many year player, they want their very own special place.
No telling how many would want as well, so if you please one set there are 100's more out there asking, Don't think it would work, just because some think they are among the very special. There are probably many more out there that think the same! Can't win on this one. To the old saying, Da..ed if ya do and Da..ed if ya don't.

"yeah sorry to say GENE is missing the point here..hes focusing on low lvl players when its RETAINING long term players that ensure its growth and stability"

Tania, I've heard this feedback from you on many occasions. Unfortunatly it's very vague feeback that I can do little with. You make this statement like it's a principle of game design and that would be a missunderstanding of the process or the problem. Every MMO has this problem. High level players chew threw content at a pace that is impossible to keep up with. They get bored and want new content - but to them the new content looks a great deal like the old content - which makes sense, it's the same game. They also don't want you to change the game to keep it fresh - look at how much fun we had with the Power Move update. That's why most MMO's have an "end game" that usually involves more PVP. Sherwood is no different. The Battle Arena and Power Moves came out of this.

I'm "focusing" on content for all players, not just new ones. That's why the newer islands are NOT level specific, so that they provide content for all. Yes, I've added a new help system for new players, but the PVP combat system and power moves are designed to focus more on skill than level. I dont' "focus" on a particular type of player. I just try to improve the game over time.

I agree that retaining long term players is important. It's important to me and I'm working as hard as I can to retain them. Now that being said, you're basic premise (the long term stability of an MMO is based on retention of long term player) is not supported at all by well know stats in the MMO industry. The most important thing to long term stability? The new player experience. Sorry.

I have players at all sorts of experience levels and I've been focussing new content so that it affects ALL of them - so that as many players as possible are affected. The story based quests I'm working on can be done by players XP level 1 to 1000. The rewards and MOB will scale to suit any XP level. This makes the most sense given I have a limited amount of time and given that if I made a choice based on the stats - well you already know what the stats say.

Now, there is a reason this thread caught my curiosity. In the update I'm working on I've changed all the islands to not be XP level specific. This would let me create chained quests that could span multiple islands.

I didn't think this would be a problem, given the positive feedback regarding this same change made to Sherwood Castle. Now I'm not as sure.

I could hold back from including the Isle of Ancients in the chained quests, because I'm getting the idea that players like the fact that you've at least achieved a certain level to be there - it's like a club house for higher level players. But wouldn't the Isle of Ancients be more interesting if the monsters provided a challenge for xp level 100 players as well as 35?

yes GENE you are right and i do appologise for saying you do not focus on that,my main aim in doing so was to get you come forward and tell me what you have planned and your views
I dont agree with some of your updates though,and yes i know your time and resources are limited...i think what you do is awesome and please do not think for 1 moment i am ungreatful..im not..you provide a FREE game...for that i commend you
alot of the game issues i see though that turn NEW players away are...1)the abuse,2)the lack of game content after they have spent hours levelling up
1 of the biggest issues i see in SW is....the same people making new accounts and then causing trouble
WE ALL know you make patches regularly on hacked accounts...thats a main reason people change names..it dosnt take a rocket scientist to discover all the new names in teleport 1 room 1 after you have made a patch...BUT..they will NEVER stop...SW needs an incentive to level up and RETAIN the same name..imagine this gene....
you made PvP skillz scaledable as well...maybe like lvl 1-25 then 26-50 then 51-100 all groupd in simmillar damage/armour levels of PvP,so lvl 1-25 be weakest and all players over lvl 100 are equal...now,why i suggest this is...
it does not take alot of hard work to reach lvl 100..infact its kinda easy compared to other MMO's i have played
so....you keep patching hacked accts as you do and have done and reset those to lvl 25..that person who lost his 8000lvls or so will have to find a new one or start from fresh and be weak....now those players who spent the time to level up and NEVER lose levels because of a patch..stay the same always..at present they just dont care GENE,you poatch thier accounts(kinda pointless cuz they work so fast makin new oines) and then they are back to where they were again,totally unconcerned by your actions
Now if they had started with a hacked account and levelled it up,they lose that hard work they spent....thats incentive to ME to play fairly....only an idiot would keep using a hacked account after being reset a few times if they KNEW they would also lose PvP skillz at samne time,thats what most ppl play SW for..is PvP
one thing ive learnt is this gene...if you want to find the CE users and hacked account holders..teleport1 room 1 is the place..its widespread i agree but its also more common there...why is that?...because tele1 room 1 aka the "zoo" is where the fighters like to go,they are same players all time using diff accounts!...they laugh at the honest players and one thing ive noticed when recruiting new players is,they come to fight here,get totally smashed by a cheater and lose hope of ever competing...another player lost to game...and that makes it hard for SW to retain players....
so to sum it all up....scale PvP levels so all players over lvl 100 are equal...thus giving more incentive to level up,maybe then people will retain the same name and create a history and reputation among other like minded ppl..
Oh and btw...this will also encourage people to play fairly..ask many of the top PvP,they find it hard to find a fight with a player who is honest and dont cheat in some form...people are not using your great PvP format how you designed it..they can cheat so they do that...very few people are taking the time to learn how complex and skilled yet how simple your SW PvP is!!..and lose sight of the fact with time and knowledge they too can be good at it!!
lastly..im sorry for the length of this BUT....the PvP has stopped progressing...bring back ghost hits !!!...without reliable ghost hits we cant fight a CE user like we once could,that makes them stronger and no fun to fight...with ghosts we were able to kill them alot easier!

Tania-Dragonslayer....wonders if the formula gene uses to random place weps will be a lil better and place ALL weps in chests!

( Yes.) you can't judge by a faint few. If a lot of many year players had their way, there would be no new players, from the talk. That woud be same ole same ole. some players who have been on Sherwood for a long time, have only leveled up past 18 to 20 something? Just enough to get the power moves and then just hang! others have leveled up.

"""I could hold back from including the Isle of Ancients in the chained quests, because I'm getting the idea that players like the fact that you've at least achieved a certain level to be there - it's like a club house for higher level players.""""

Yes , I think that Matthew and Andrei and you have summed it up well.

We like the fact that we can stand there (us players who have been here for months and years) and hang out , more or less oblivious to the monsters that chew newbs and noobs up and spit them out.

True they can find a rock as someone pointed out, but if they become bothersome we can deal with them as they have limited places to go.

Yes we like feeling like we 'earned'' the right to be in that Island.


And it also, as someone else said, provides a place with monsters well above your level for the lower level, something to shoot for, and the satisfaction of one day being able to One HIt KO a big dragon : )

IF you must change all the other teleports, please let Ancient Sherwood alone... If anything I would love to see the monsters go from level 35-ish to say 50 or 100,,, OR the Deeper into the heart of the island you go , or the farther back, the higher the Mosters level is ??

Thats an interesting thought.......

man, im glad I made this discussion!

I used to play sherwood in the first months of its starting (computer problems have made me start over recently) and I personally like all new players and such. But I agree with people on here about the more level specific islands and agree with Tania J on basically everything.

Level 35 monsters as well as level 100+ monsters on same island, Gene? Blasphemey!

But, that's a good idea.

It might require some new designs and stuff, or you being clever and using what you got, but maybe some sort of CAVE for some sorta UBER Dragon on T5, or any other island?

I have no problem taking down the big dragon on Isle of Ancients, or any Mobs or Darkbloods, so what ya saying, you claim the Island-LOL
I Have played how long 4 or 5 months? Leveled up quit well.

Yes!
Please make chained quests over multiple islands Gene. It hopefully would get rid of the emptiness in some teleports (read: Lost Lagoon).

The longer a player plays a game, the more they feel entitled to "own" it in a way. Unfortunately, change is often hampered by these players, who want the game to go in their direction. Gene tries to keep the older players happy, but sometimes they want crazy stuff done to please them, akin to the common newbie who says "this game should have ranged weapons."
I say that this game is fairly balanced in its service to both new and old players. Keep up the good work.

Well then there would be no way to see if someone is a cloner then.

Besides asking them to go into the dungeon, but that would work clumsily.

Having level-based islands lets players see another player's level (well i can tell the difference between a 1-hit kill and a hour long fight) by asking them to fight monsters.
And if you can see someone else's level you can tell if they are a cloner.

You can make chained quests, but lock them till the players' levels are high enough to the islands they must go to.

*to get to the islands they must go to.

"!!!...without reliable ghost hits we cant fight a CE user like we once could,that makes them stronger and no fun to fight...with ghosts we were able to kill them alot easier!"
Blablabla [...] Hackers are bad [...] blablabla [...] I'm go to sleep...
If you don't like hackers then don't fight/talk with him

GENE...I don't think its a good idea to exclude the Isle of Ancients from chained quests. Like you, I think it would be more interesting if it was a challenge for all levels.

The 'clubhouse for high level players' arguement doesn't really hold water unless you actually prohibit lower levels from getting in. Even if the monsters in there were level 100, there is nothing to stop a low level (troublesome) player from getting in, and rushing to the safety of a rock.

Plus, there are still plenty of people with hacked level files between 500 and 1000. The 'high level club' would be pretty much meaningless, and elitism can be divisive.

Rather than having all monsters track your level, or having a teleport where all MOBs are a fixed level, what about having some MOBs with higher levels within the same teleport...rather like the leader wolf compared to the pack.

You could still chain quests across all the teleports, but lower level players would need to know when to 'leg it' or fight, with certain MOBs.

Higher level players could then 'strut their stuff' against those extra-strong MOBs either to show off, or maybe to help out lower level players.

Variable strength MOBs would give you the option to have 'clan quests'. Where the quest required help from higher level players, or a group of lower level players working together.

TANIA...New accounts cannot start at above level 25. Is it still possible to hack that to a higher level after the account has been created?

There is no way for us to be sure that ALL weapons have +not+ been allocated. Don't you think that is part of the mystery?

Gene could run a simple routine to produce a list of weps that have been allocated, but I'm not sure him saying "yes they have all been allocated at least once" or "x, y, and z have not been allocated" is a good idea.

If we knew for definite then there would be a huge amount of dungeon diving going on, until the rare ones were eventually found. Not knowing whether it is worth the effort means there won't be quite so much searching, and so the OMG moment when someone wanders into the castle with a previously unfound weapon comes as a surprise.

Plus, if there +are+ some currently un-allocated weapons, it gives Gene the opportunity to provide them as rewards for quests, or as random MOB drops. In effect he gets a free-feature because the weapons already exist.

KAIKAI...

"...The longer a player plays a game, the more they feel entitled to "own" it in a way. Unfortunately, change is often hampered by these players..."

I absolutely agree with that, but Gene has worked in the games industry all his life so I don't see him falling into the trap.

As for balance between new and older players, well I think there is scope for improving the need to advance in XP level but I'm not sure that having private rooms for high level players is a great idea.

If all the high level players go into 'private' rooms, the game will look empty to brand new players when they first come in. Hence my suggestion of some high-level MOBs among the normal 'xp-tracking' MOBs for newbies to watch high level players taking apart.

I know it's been a while since I've posted on a discussion but I just wanted add my "two cents" to what Gene was talking about when he was saying that instead of having islands with monsters that level depends on your level. That sounds good but how about this:

I don't know about the wrest of you but as I level up, I would like the game to get progressively harder and pushes my fighting skills to the limit. The way I would like for that to be in sherwood is for to have each teleport, not only adapted to your level, but as the teleports' numbers increase, so does the difficulty level of the monsters in different areas.

For example:If you where a level 10 and you went to Haunted palm. The difficulty of those monsters would be about 5% stronger than what you are BUT if you went to Ancient, the monsters there would be lets say 20% stronger than what you are. So no matter what level you are, you will still feel the game getting harder as the teleports get higher.

The idea, to me, sounds a little constrictive because if Gene keeps making teleports that get hard and harder, there would have to be some way of dealing with impossibly hard monsters. The idea it'self IMO has a pretty solid base but let me know what you guys think.

I don't like this high levels get special treatement stuff ( and before you ask yes i am a high level) Sherwood not having that is what makes it special becuase it does not promote elitlism because like roadkill said they would all just go to private rooms and the place would look empty. Also without high levels around who are the new players suppose to learn from? Sherwood is not a game you pick up in one day it takes time and by fighting higher level people they can usually help you get a better understanding of the game and if you ask they might even help you out.

Also high level mobs among normal ones sounds like a good idea and speaking of high level mobs I think a new one could be a red dragon. I noticed the all the little dragons have a big version except the red one so I think a big red dragon would be a cool idea for a boss like monster among the lower one because it would not require a new type monster or any of the other stuff that goes into making a new monster.