Sudanese are so quick to forget but luckily not all of us will forget the crimes of ALINGAZ. Did people forget that Al-Bashir took power by force, that he executed and murdered countless Sudanese, that under his watch Millions of Sudanese died in warfare and from extreme poverty, that he and his cronies dragged the name of Sudan to the gutter that today it's on every tongue as a terrorist sponsoring nation?

Wake up ya Sudanese... AlBashir is a criminal and it's about time that he is cornered! 3ugbalak ya Ali Othman Mohamed Taha and the rest of the morally bankrupt kaizan!

Khadega,

Al7amduliAllah ino fi youm 7isaaab, wa maseero 7ilagi rabana...
Personally ana 7agi ma 7akhleeho, wa 7ag ahli, wa 7ag gabeelti, wa 7ag baladi... amrna lai Allah

You know nothing.....and u will be the first people to cry.....shut up

Admin please kick them out

Why should we be kicked out? We have not used profanity nor have we insulted only one. We have expressed nothing but the truth... why are you so afraid of the truth!?!

AlBashir Mujrim... even if you delete our comments and kick us out... Allah beyakhoud 7agana mino.

and sorry we will not shut up, I thought AlBashir is implementing democracy now in Sudan, so you are obliged to listen to our point of view :)

salamalaikokm! first of allll ya Gino and Khadega no hard feelings but am replying to this topic with all due respect to both of you guys! stating my opinion...ok? alright....I really am surprised that it came down to this and that the ICC finally found a way to try to get to sudan! I dont' noe about u guys but it almost seems like a plan to take down allllllll muslim countries and not only that but also stop the ones that are somewhat prosporing from moving forward and excelling! its kind of ironic...none the less, al bashir did everything to stand behind sudan and suport it ..he made sudan one of the VERY FEW countries that are not bowing dowing and kissin the feet of the US or the UN.....he recongizes the problems in the country and is working to fix them....but since there is much improvement and alhumdulilah the country was doing much better...THEY had to find a way to bring him down and zay ma bingooul " ilabisoho tohma" wa ilgo leihom sabab ma3aho....just to get into sudan wa ida7'alo fi shi2oun al balud! furthermore, if there is any president that needs to be imprisioned or persecuted it should be Pr. Bush for basically lying to his country and getting them into a war that wasnt' proved necesary ...or the prime minister of Israel ....for continously killing palestinians and breaking every "peace Plan" they say to have in place! and its amazing how u guys mentioned that albashir will be punished in hell .....i honestly think that we dont' have the right to judge who will be punished in hell...that should be left solely to allah and in the hearafter...but while we are here at it.....its very obvious to see al zoulm wein and the place where oppression is constantly taking place ...so if there is any worldy punishement that punishment should be for those who see injustice and don't speak up about it ..and see their MUSLIM brothers and sisters being killed...but still stand in the side of the enemy!!!!! SALAM

Salam Sana,

Bush is indeed evil, but the topic here is not Bush it is Al-Bashir and the crimes that he has committed against the Sudanese people.

Sudan today is ranked as one of the most failed nations, so please explain to me how he was able to develop the 'country', unless to you the country is Khartoum only and the people are those only aligned with the Igaz government.

Albashir and his fellow thugs took power by force from a freely elected government in 1989 and ever since they have have systematically prosecuted, exiled, and tortured most political rivals.

They worsened the situation in the south by proclaiming it a Holly War only to turn around and share power with the very people the claimed were villans giving them the right self determination thus practically seperating the country.

They turned Sudan into a safe heaven for extremist and the term Sudan is now officially associated with genocide, Slave traders, ethnic cleansing and extremism.

Darfur... masakeeen ahl Darfur, rape, murder, plunder and ethnic divide... there has never been a more criminal government in power!


Did you forget the Army officers he executed youm alwagfa for a failed military coup? (did he forget how he came to power?) We didn't forget and never will...

Youmak gareeb ya'l Bashir.... u will be questioned on earth and judgement day!

سلااااااام
يؤسفني ما اسمع على السنتكم اخوتي. كل من يتحدث دون ان يدرك عواقب ما سيؤول اليه الوضع في السودان اعتبره يتحدث من وراء مشاعر شخصيه لا غير. و احب ان انوه ان السودان بلد كبير و لسنوات لم يكن البشير مجبرا على تحمل المشكلات القائمه فيه . لكنه صمد و حاول بكافه السبل حل المشكلات و التوصل الى نقاط متوسطه. يامن تعاتبونه اليوم اسالكم ان تنظروا باعين واعيه لا بلسان تتلمذ على يد الصهاينه و الامريكان . و ازا كان في حق الله بياخدو.

يا اخ انا كل البسمعو من كلامك هو اعاده للبقول المدعي و غيرو. انت ما تصدق كل البقولو . هم كزبز الكزبه و صدقوها انت كمان حتعمل زيهم؟ و على فكره حتى لو حصل ده ما معنا انو البشير هو السبب. و انت بتقول نحن بصدد الحديث عن البشير لكن ازا اس البلا بوووووش ما اتحاكم عايز الناس اللي ماليها ايد في المشاكل تتحاكم ياااااخي فوووق لنفسك و شوف حواليك .و بالاعلام ما تتاثر الاعلام بهول الامور لا غير.

salamz ppl and gino

plz take time and re-read the facts before calling names and accusations it only makes you look as someone who dislikes ppl for no reason

Who said Sudan is a " failed country" as u said , look at sudan now and look at sudan only 5 years ago you can not be serious about that fact, unless you live outside of sudan and hear your news elsewhere, you are talking about our president or the economic growth of Sudan because you clearly stated and i quote your words......" but the topic here is not Bush it is Al-Bashir and the crimes that he has committed against the Sudanese people."
we the sudanese ppl are concernred with the development of OUR country not the president, we work hard to improve our country,we help educate the coming generations, we the ppl are responsible if the sudansese are too lazy to build a bridge, we suggest and follow through in the largest projects with the help of the government, so as u can see u just attacked THE PPL.

The Darfur situation is a sensitive one so for you to say false accusations you are disrespecting the issue, plz read a bit learnabout the struggle before 2003 and the Darfur before the bashir regime, and when u have ample info and facts , come back and write these facts. you are saying Rape and Murder. i myself agree with you there is Rape and Murder but by who and if it is the bashir regime, why on earth would they do such a unhumane crime to their own, not to forget the fact that the sudanese army is packed with zagawa and masaleet, and yet we didnt see any of them running to the ICC and saying the army raped the Women of Darfur.
where do you live? its a clear fact that if military coup takes place and the Officers involved ((stating clearly OFFICERS not Citizens)) are caught they are executed, any attempt to overthrow a government in every country in thr world, is taken as a crime against the country and the participants are executed.and if you are muslim the Suna makes it clear that in case of "khawrij"--outlaws ,they are fought to the death...once again do some reading and come back!

your topic sayes it all " im not against the court" when were you with it anyways? Sudan and all the arabic countries have not recognised the ICC. only 106 signed treaties with the court and if you log on to the websit you will see these countries. The united states of america does not recognise this court!! Iran does not recognise it. even the worst of them all ....the "colonized lands of palestine"...((i do not recognise Israel as a country)) do not recognise it. You are letting your president to be acused by a non recognise court, an independant court, if you feel that he shuld be accused accuse hime from within his ppl in Sudan not from ppl who dont even know till now what was the spark of the conflict in darfur yet they say that they undrstand what we are going through....this is a joke and so is this topic!!

اخي جنو منو
شكرا لمشاركتكم ونحن هنا لسنا بصدد اقامة محاكمة للبشير او غير البشير وبالمناسبة مافي حاكم عربي ولا غير عربي او مسلم او غير مسلم لم يخطيئ في حق شعبة ولكن الشعوب هي التي تحاكم رؤساؤها تماما كما فعلنا مع النميري وعبود ولكن ان تتم محاكمة السودان في شخص البشير هذا واللة الذي سيكون علي اجسادنا ويكون يكون الذي يسعون اليه دونه فرط القتاد

لك الود والتقدير

your the only one who has no right to talk about this issue, you living in canada, fed from the governmnet FIP,welfare and assistant, after you quit this free living then come and talk about who should do what.

Ya jino mino op ya Khdeeja. Al into bita3milo feeho da is zeyada o zar3 lel fitna. We are not talking about tl basheer in particular, we are talking about bi ay 7ag tagder ay jiha ta7akim ra2ees dawla o howa lisa fi fatrat 7okmo?????? This will cause alot of mess by the way o MAFI AY ZOL 7ayestafeed o gidamak al 3iraq o law 3indakom mo5 a7komo. Dayreenana nabga zay al 3irag ya5wana????? Da faham shino da?????

Man fuck u and fuck ur sick cheap sneaky disloyal thoughts too... ya man we are kezan , kezan aint no more the word prescribe the strictly Muslim guyz that ruling Sudan by force even they didn’t !! but it’s a principle we do believe and we do consider too, its our vision to the new Sudan and really we don’t give ashiit for dogs parking like urs and we do kno how to make adog like u to shutup ,not by power even if it’s the ryt way to deal with fuckers and treacherous , but by the achievement we did and doing and going to do and by our lasting for ever . We gonna fight mothfuckers and sneaks like u till win or get dy trying … so fuck u and ur not willcomed down here Cz ur stink .

heeeey yasir dont flip out. it ain't worth it.every one has the right to express his own opinion.
I totally disagree with al ingaz policies. n we all know that they drove sudan to the bottom of it.
Sudan been through a lot of crisis recently n obviously non of has been worked out.though it's our sudan , n just us whom responsible to ride it out on our own.
we dont need that shit ICC to do it for us,do we?
just god knows how bad it turns out to be if we have them involved.

khadega plz take time and read our posta carefully,for every fact that u said are you 100% sure that's what happened, cause " almoemin la yakzib". and please ppl using vulgar language in posts shows that u are shallow minded.

Khadega the simple fact we are stressing is that we simply disagrree with the humiliation caused by these accusations , think about it this way : you belong to group A all of a sudden group b showed up and said u did this and that, on what basis or on what rights are you accusing me???? what is the ICC anyways ,to disrespect a high ranking diplomatic figure????
yes, ALLAH will ask omar albashir what he has done to his nation. but for another human with no ties ,Diplomatic or otherwise with Sudan to just jump out of the blue and say this and that . this is where we do not agree!!!
another thing coups have taken place in the islamic world and ppl have the right to organize coups but if caught u will be executed no matter what , Read the international laws and u will see that this a fact. plus as i said to gino once you are an officer particpating in a coup and you are caught the government has the right to execute u based on the military code without trial.
No one knows what you khadega have done so we cant keep saying that ALLAH is going to punish you, you will punished based on what u did not what ppl say u did!!!!

if you are inlisted in the army you have very clear rules and regulations if you as an army official try to participate in a military coup and your coup fails you will be charged by the military code and executed, if you simply do not agree dont join the army and participate a coup being a citizen, where u will be trialed as a citizen and might not be executed...this is the law. and since you are looking at it throug an islamic prospective. the people who participate in a coup are called "khawarij" and by islamic laws they fought and killed.

i didnt say that just because everyone is commiting a crime makes it legit,
i do not back this government and i think they have commited mistakes , but if i was to judge them now, to make it legit you would have the court using islamic laws . and by the ppl who he ,as ppl say, has tortured.

I live in Sudan currently and i do not need to be reminded what my government has done, but when the whole government is under questioning then that is justice but to say only the key figures in a certain party are under trial, then your concept of justice is not correct.

if you want to embarass al bashir then your islam is questionable,Since everything u say is refering to islamic justice, islam is the religon of manners, public embaresment is NOT the justice you seek.

With all due respect, i think it is disrespectful to say that our government has done nothing to improve sudan , despite its downs, we are in Sudan now so we notice things . come back to Sudan and say that all albashir has done is kill and rape,
have you ever been to alfashir? go there and then once again give us your opinions when u understand what is currently going on in Sudan, not from somewhere else.

if it makes u any bit satisfied albashir will satnd before ALLAH and explain his actions,,,,but dont forget so will we.....why havent we stayed IN sudan and helped the development???? why havent we done a good job in recognising the little efforts, instead of all the negative talk??? what have we done to SUDAN???
answer these questions and you will definetly see why we are backing our president in this ordeal!!!

Khadega,
Have you heard of Alhadith " tawada3o le allah yarfa3kom"
lol at your molecular Genetics.
so what are you going to use your ecological genetics and population genetics at in Sudan.? will you please give me a break dear..Thank You.
if i tell you what I do, you will feel tiny about what you said above.

as for the welfare, you need to know your living off other people shoulders.

if you truly study molecular biology, you should be able to differentiate and recognize pattern of descendants if they taught you that in you M.B.

these people are simply trying to divide the country into many parts.
Irag and other countries are a good examples to look at.
the matter of fact your the one who is blind and does"t know how to read the future, predict and analyze the current situation given past events such as Iraq.
the M.B are based of the Probability and statistics science , am sure your not good at it,I have seen many students of your major who struggled in this class.
what is the prob of their bad intention(the court) to divide the country into many parts given that the US,UN and Israel are behind them? let me make it multiple conditional probability to make it a little harder. also given they have done the same exact thing in other countries.( hint: use : Bayes' Theorem)

lets now go into Econ,as a consumer, are you better off having the country divided, no government,killing in the street,etc or having a bad gov with what its doing now and at least maintaining some level of control?

The other points are worthless to respond to.

Dr. Khadega,
please read and learn what you can't find in the Molecular Genetics.

http://www.meshkat.net/new/contents.php?catid=6&artid=8388
http://www.meshkat.net/new/contents.php?catid=6&artid=8391

بدءا أقول
إن مما تقر به العين ويثلج به الصدر ويرتاح له البال، ان يجد الانسان بين أبناء أمته ووطنه، شباباً يغتمون ويهتمون لحال وطنهم ويتفاعلون مع قضاياهم، ويتابعون ما يجري وما يدور.

أنبه على امرين :
الاول: ما الداعي الى الكتابة باللغة الانجليزية؟؟؟؟؟
لا أظن ان هناك أجابة مقنعة لهذا السؤال, سودانيون يناقشون موضوعا يتعلق بوطنهم ورئيسهم فيما بينهم ، لا أعرف سببا يدفع الى تغيير لغة التحاور والتخاطب.
يا أخوة ، ان الأمر أكبر وأعظم وأجل من استعراض بعض المهارات اللغوية، فلطفاً، أكدوا على لغتكم العربية كلغة للنقاش.
الثاني: لكل منا رأيه ورؤيته ، وكل منا يرى الامور بعينٍ غير التي يرى بها الآخرون، فالتباين والاختلاف هو سنة الكون، وما ينكر ذلك عاقل. ومع هذا فالحق واحد ،والصحيح واحد , فليس معقولا ان تكون الارض مسطحة ومستديرة في نفس الوقت، ولا يستقيم ان الشئ أبيضاً وأسوداً في ذات الآن...
لذا فلنبحث عن هذا الحق وهذا الصحيح بإرادة حقيقية وبِنية صادقة بعيداً عن حظوظ النفس ومشاعرها وأهوائها.
_________

معظم النقاشات في الصفحة تدور حول : حكومة الانقاذ جرائمها ، شرعيتها، انجازاتها...
هذه القضايا ومثيلاتها يتحدث الناس عنها ويناقشونها منذ تبوأت الانقاذ هذا المنصب، فلا طائل من إعادة هذه الحوارات.
موضوع "القروب" الآن هو اوكامبو وقراره ، هل يسلم الرئيس البشير الى المحكمة الدولية أم لا؟
يتبين من نقاشات الاخوة أنهم على قدر من العقلانية والتنور، فلنتكلم بموضوعية أكثر، ولنحاول ألا نخرج عن إجابة هذا السؤال.

باختصار أقول:
الرئيس عمر حسن أحمد البشير :
قتل ونهب وسلب
جوَّع وعطَّش وأفقر
دمَّر وحرَّق وأباد
فلنفرض جدلا انه قام بكل ما ذُكر، السؤال:
من يملك حق محاكمة الرئيس البشير؟؟
في رأيي ان هؤلاء ليسوا أهلا لمثل هذه المحاكمة، لأن جرائمهم أبشع وأفظع مما اقترفته الانقاذ ولا يجادل في ذلك منصف.
أين أسلحة الدمار الشامل التي دخل الجيش الامريكي من أجلها العراق، ودمر وقتل ونهب واغتصب و...
لماذا لا يطرح هذا السؤال على مستوى المحكمة الدولية؟؟
من أجرى دمعة في حق الصوماليين الذين قتلتهم القوات الاثيوبية بدعم أمريكي باعتراف حكومتها، وعلى مرءا ومسمع من هذه المحكمة الدولية والعالم أجمع؟؟
من رفع ادعاءاً الى المحكمة الدولية بخصوص الأبرياء في كشمير والشيشان، لماذا لا يحاكم القادة الروس على جرائمهم تلك؟
وفوق ذلك كله، لماذا لا يرفع اوكامبو مذكرة ادعاء يطالب فيها باعتقال رئيس الوزراء الإسرائيلي يهود اولمرت، ولا أظنه يحتاج الى كثير عناء ليعدد جرائم هذا الاخير.

حقـــاً:
لا يلام الذئب في عدوانه ,,, إن يك الراعي عدو الغنم

أيها السادة:
حين تدخل ازدواجية المعايير على القوانين القضائية فيحاكم زيد من الناس ويترك عَمْر، لا يسمى هذا قضاءاً!!
حين يخطئ القوي فلا يُحاكم، ويجني الضعيف فيقام عليه الحد، لا يسمى هذا قضاءاً!!

خلاصة القول:
عندما نلمس روح المصادقية والامانة في اوكامبو هذا
وعندما يحاكم كل المجرمون في العالم ، ولم يبقى سوى رئيس دولتنا المشير عمر البشير، تعالوا بعدها لنتفاوض.
ودمتم.

Salam Doka,

I wrote a long lengthy reply but unfortunately it was lost and not posted, I will try to revisit my thoughts.

Sudan is a failed country it is rippled with conflict on almost each and every corner. From Darfur to the East, from the North (Kajbar for example) to Abeyi. Sudan is not only Khartoum and Port Sudan, so when you speak of development do not speak of the few who stand to benefit from the RAPE of oil fields by the INGAZ government. Only those who are aligned with this current criminal government are the ones benefiting from the mass plunder of natural resources for their own personal and political gain!
There are specific measures used in quantifying the factors that determine if a country is a failed state:

# mounting demographic pressures
# massive movement of refugees and internally displaced peoples
# legacy of vengeance - seeking group grievance
# chronic and sustained human flight
# uneven economic development along group lines
# sharp and/or severe economic decline
# criminalisation and delegitimisation of the state
# progressive deterioration of public services
# widespread violation of human rights
By all means, Sudan today is a failed state ruled by a ruthless dictatorship
# security apparatus as "state within a state"
# rise of factionalised elites
# intervention of other states or external actors

How did I attack the people, please refrain from the use of fallacious arguments. Do not make up side arguments, or divert from the issue at hand by putting words into my mouth.

Sudanese are not lazy but Sudanese are too kind and forgiving, and because I am concerned about the future of my country I will continue to fight this regime with all my energy. I'm sorry but i do not and will not subscribe to 'mafi badeel' (no alternative) theory to the current regime nor do I subscribe to the 'country will become another Somalia or Iraq' propaganda . This weak use of 'takhweef' (fear) by the INGAZ to have people support the government is a good strategy that even the Bush administration used to gear up support for their criminal war in Iraq but it is not a strategy that Sudanese will fall for.

In regards to Darfur, I know the history of the conflict very well... but the question is who tipped the balance? Who armed militias to fight rebels from historically rival groups in stead of deploying the conventional army? It was ALINGAZ!

AlBashir has blood on his hands he is a criminal. He came to power via a coup which makes him "khawarij" in the first place and then turned around and executed people youm alwagfa for the same sin he committed.

Even though I seriously doubt that an actual arrest warrant will be issued for AlBashir, I'm extremely happy that he is being embarrassed and exposed for his true criminal nature and inshaAllah this will lead to the fall of the tyrant and his cronies.