I wrote recently on John Henry Cardinal Newman and Ambrose St John:

http://johnheard.blogspot.com/2008/05/dreadpublishing-being-heard-john-heard.html

Who do you look to? Who models chastity, and obedience in a manner that might appeal to same sex attracted men and women? Is there a saint who fits "gay" sensibilities?

For me, personally, saints who lived an 'unworldly' life serve as inspirations. Usually monks or nuns or others who lived a life that the world would consider unnatural or unfulfilling, particularly those who came so close to giving up everything and following Jesus.

Because I believe I am being called to live a life that the world considers unnatural. And according to the world's mores, I don't think it is any more unnatural than, for example, the life of Mother Teresa.

So, someone like St Rose of Lima? She has been an inspiration to me. And Beato Charles de Foucauld:

http://johnheard.blogspot.com/2005/11/dreadbeato-onto-parapet-of-snow.html

I'm interested in this term "unnatural". What do you mean?

- JH

'Unnatural' I mean according to the world, which in many cases would be natural in the Christian sense, where Man is created in the image of God. That's what you're getting at, I think.

I think what Jesus asked the rich man to do would be considered unnatural in the world. Becoming a monk or nun would be considered unnatural for everything in entails, not only the chastity part. Same for Ghandi's unrelenting and unconditional pacificism, to say nothing for his ascetism. Ascetism in general is considered unnatural by the world.

Hope it's a little clearer.

Okay, so I guess someone in the same line as, say, St Josemaria Escriva (who made daily work unnatural / holy by elevating it to Him) might fit in that definition too.

- JH

Wasn't [Sta. Rosa de Lima] the one that disfigured her beautiful face and hands with lye and pepper "so as not to be cause for temptation"? Pretty intense, huh? 0_o

You know, I don't think there are any "gay" saints; if there are saints whose chastity was exemplary that they should be, say, some patron saint of virgins, then their inspiration would be for anyone who would desire that same devotion and an example on how to do it (hopefully not many of us will jump into the Lye & Pepper boat), regardless of said devotee's sexual, umm, [preference?/situation?/orientation?]. I very much doubt that one day there'll be a Patron Saint of People with ssa, simply because we can't deny that the Church's holistic focus will never be simply on a person's sexual orientation (is it a virtue now or something?).

We can come up with a bunch of Saints that are exemplary in a bunch of ways, for the myriad of shortcomings any of us may have. That none of these are ssa specifically only further reminds us that there's something amiss with even searching for a "gay saint"... a certain "I don't know what the..." that's going to take us through many years of dialog.

'We can come up with a bunch of Saints that are exemplary in a bunch of ways, for the myriad of shortcomings any of us may have. That none of these are ssa specifically only further reminds us that there's something amiss with even searching for a "gay saint"...'

In that case, let me suggest a few (for healing):
St. Amabilis of Riom,
" Christina the Astonishing
" Dymphna
" Hermes
" Maturinus
and the Vierzehnheiligen.

I don't see anything wrong with seeking a "gay" or SSA saint. While the quest may be difficult it would be no different than any other group of Christians seeking one who has made the journey of faith and grace that they share. This is seen in the vast and diverse array of patron saints whether they be patron saints of a country, cause or particular group of people.
To have one to whom we may have spiritual communion and recourse for prayers of understanding of our distinctive challenges is, to me all part of the graces of the Kingdom of Christ.
The hagiography of a saint with a confirmed SSA orientation may be difficult to prove. But there is encouragement to be found in the study of those already mentioned besides such examples as St. Aelred, St John of the Cross, Sts. Sergius and Bacchus, and even St. John the Beloved.

I find Saint Rose of Lima to be a very inspiring example of chastity and humility. Also Saint Dymphna, and the Blessed Massabki brothers particularly the youngest.

I don't know if particularly there is something "wrong" with trying to find a "gay" or ssa Saint, but I am sure there is something "amiss", pertaining to the particular purpose of finding such a Saint (or Saints). Now this is not to say, for instance, there may already be a number of saints out there (or Saints in the making) who share this particular cross! And perhaps if we are to look at the past there may not be any canonized "gay" Saints, but certainly we may happily look around us and take note of the ssa saints that live amongst us already... perhaps these may be difficult to spot, but I don't doubt that such exist.

I say amiss because any claims we make based on our present understanding of things on a particular person in the past, especially in regard to his/her sexual orientation, can only be tenuous at best. We cannot always know for sure what lay in the silent recesses of their hearts (especially if they are kept silent). We can only make the assumption that if any such Saint did experience ssa, s/he certainly felt like keeping it to him/herself!

I don't think that the present asks for such complete silence, but, as always, our Faith asks us for prudence and humility (and likewise these are Gifts).

I do, however, think that there are somewhat bad (I couldn't find a better word, really) examples of Saints to really, trully emulate, such as Sta. Rosa de Lima (with her lye and pepper)! In that vein, we might as well look up to Origen and his self-castrating ways (if we are to believe Eusebius). I'm not denying the virtues of these particular saints' lives, but is it necessary to go to such drastic lengths? Perhaps for some, but definitely not for me.

Eh, I don't think anybody's about to do the whole pepper and lye thing (I know I'm not)! Imitating a saint is about imitating the virtue (of chastity, humility, etc) that inspired them to do such extreme things (the aforementioned pepper and lye) not about emulating the actual extreme physical penances. So when I try to imitate Saint Rose of Lima, I try to imitate her spirit of humility and her love of chastity, but that's all. :)

But, umm, isn't that like almost ALL the Saints? I guess, that if I were to choose someone who was virtuous in humility and loved chastity, it would be someone a little less... willing to disfigure herself (or to cut off his testicles, in Origen's case), is all. It's just something odd, and, if you were to ask most people, not something very useful (to douse your flesh with a dissolving chemical and add on a dash of pepper for it to hurt some more -- although pepper does have antisceptic properties ;) ). But if you're going to imitate the virtue that inspired those extreme things, you may as well do the extreme things also (I just wonder exactly which of God's gifts inspired to do that to herself...).

Perhaps then, in this vein, we should bring mortification of the body by flagellation back.

I think my point is this: we need a new saint, because, in essence, this is a new kind of issue. We should look up to the people [with ssa -- if we want to get that picky] who are living saintly lives now, while of course keeping in mind the many virtuous Saints of the past in order to be numbered amongst them in Heaven (not necessarily all canonized by the Church, of course). These people acknowledge their sinfulness, their need for Christ's Love, Redemption, and Mercy. These people try their best and most passionately to follow the teachings of God's Church, despite what others may think or throw at them.

I admire these people; they inspire me to be like them; they help me feel less alone in this struggle. They are saints, perhaps not canonized, but when they tell me they will pray for me, I know their special friendship with Christ will make that a powerful prayer, no? To tell you the truth, I have only a few examples, but somehow, in my mind and heart, that makes their "saintliness" even more real.

I see your point, it is well stated. Thanks for your input! :)