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Our King Day to be here at the site of you know the great speech that Doctor Martin Luther King gave in protest of Vietnam. we're gonna continue thematically today in this conversation between myself and our Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez. You know, I wasn't actually finished my intro. I should've known better than to say your name, but let's get out. so I'll say the two things I just make you blush because it so you know you you prep you know for your interviews and I'm going back and I'm reading through all of the congresswoman's. You know recent interview since the last year and everything and I was like on the couch at home. actually this morning always crying this morning. I was laying back and I was reading the New York Magazine cover story on you and my wife is like you know doing whatever she's doing around the House and then out of nowhere, I said. Baby if Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez runs for any other high office, I think I gotta call her up and say what can I do to help and this is hey look you you actually don't understand how huge of a deal that is right because I usually have to have this distance between me and politicians. I'm a journalist. I'm not gonna do XYZ but I think you know one of the things I actually talked to Ryan about when you came last year, it's blackout usually has. That for the most part in general, try to avoid politicians coming, but I think what you've been able to do is somehow transcend that and I have to say and still some of us with a level of faith and you that maybe we don't always have in politicians. so I think that's a beautiful thing. Thank you know. that's the first thing and the second thing I just wanted to say to you guys. I'm sorry you get an intro now no worries. this is this is important All of us who have paid attention to you don't just see you, but we see the incredible amount of bio that you receive that the squad receives we see the President of the United States the nominal head of the free world encouraging that bio those of us who are gathered here today on King Day, in honor of a man who was shot and killed. Harassed by the US government for posting the very same forces that you oppose we understand what it means for you to take the stands that you take. We understand the risk we feel it. We understand what it means, particularly for a woman of color to do that right now. So before we get started just want to thank you. Thank you. You know as I told you, I thought you know we would revolve this conversation around you know what Doctor King referred to as the three evils poverty racism and I think maybe circle back to some of the things that we talked about last year. so just to get this done. I wanted to just frame this conversation by asking you a somewhat personal question. How old are you in 911 happened? I was 12 years old 12 years old and we have basically been at war ever since and it wasn't the first. Of my life right because I was born in 1980, - nine and so the first bushes go for happened shortly after I was born as well right right and so it's fair to say for the majority of your life. We've been at one. We've been at war in a particular portion of the world. Yeah, What is that say about our priorities as a country? Well? I think the thing that's interesting about that question is that it's They are because not everyone I don't believe our whole nation's priority is to slaughter people in other parts of the world. I think it is a priority of a powerful and concentrated class in the United States. that happens to have a group of control over our government and what is it? and how do you analyse the fact that we have been this far unable to ah uninstall that that powerful class of people that systemic problem in the electoral process the political process yeah I think there is I think you know in speaking about war to I have been thinking a lot about um when Trump tweeted that he was going to target cultural rights run really well Really means and really what how that functions not just in our society, but how it's also an extension of White supremacy in that. the goal of all of this is to erase history and to raise our understanding and. I do think in areas where we are and everyday people are whether where we see that complicity in our lives is the fact that it's something that's over there you know how we always have to center American lives over human lives we don't think about the quarter million innocent civilians that died in the Iraq war we don't talk about that umm We don't talk about the actual people who experience violence and it is almost portrayed in media and in culture as people who didn't have a society anyway, so there are people that. That were just kind of out in the desert somewhere, but these are people who are living ordinary lives. I went to the grocery store, just like us and bombs are literally quite literally being dropped on them and that is not the reality of war that we see and I think frankly, they learn that you know in terms of our our media and our government learned that with Vietnam that you don't televise our actions abroad because if we knew what we were financing and back rolling a Bank rolling. We would overturn it. Yeah. Yeah. You know at the same time I have to say like I thought a lot about this that tweet two because this was not like strategy you know as my colleague and not my colleague anymore, but my good friend, you know, Adam Silver said. You know cruelty is the point and so that that was a cruel tweet and get it the same time. it feels like it was a kind of messaging to maybe not all Americans. You know, maybe not even a majority of Americans, but at least a significant a critical Mass show, we say of. Who like that idea you know, what can we do to ensure that you know cuz I think a lot of times we put faith in the future. You know it's like you know this is just old White people. they'll dial and everything will be okay. I think Dylan Roof would have some words to say about that that's right. what do we do not just at you know trying to the ballot box, But in terms of you know almost socially culturally to make sure that critical Mass, which may always be with us but shrinks yeah. Level that it can't elect a President instance well, and I'm glad that you asked what do we do outside of the ballot box because the ballot box very often is the thing that moves last night in reaction to movement and a lot of it requires that deep in the trenches work of being in the streets and collecting to get you know I you know it's like black Lives matters started several years ago. It was we all know how it. Was perceived that it's this French group disrupting society to this day, The Fbi investigates them and an activist doing the same, but that is honestly the true work. It's the activism organizing just this morning, some housing and secure mothers out in Oakland. we're able to to actually secure a home through a housing land trust, and it's that kind of the same group that got evicted. Yes, it is the same group. Yes and and that's the kind of organizing that's required, but that organizing challenges many of the operating tenants that the United States was founded on including racism, but also including the protection of capital over human beings and you know another thing that I've been really thinking and sitting with today is that we have there's this gun rights. That's happening down in Richmond and MLK Day on MLK Day, but here's the image that has struck with me. the most about that is that when we go out and March for the dignity and the recognition of the lives of people like Freddie Gray and Eric Garner, the whole place is surrounded by police in riot gear without a gun in sight and here are all of these. flying Confederate flags with semi-automatic weapons and there's almost no police officers at that protest. So. Our our school or what are our institutions institutions protecting from who right right and that image conveys it all confess it all. I'm gonna take you back to your point about organizing because I think this actually goes to something you were talking about in the New York Magazine article about the Long-term organizing you excited Senator Sanders for the long term organizing in Vermont. How does the? Democratic Party view activism and view that kind of I think they viewed as a new sense. huh. huh. I think I think they view it as As a new sense of many of them, view it as annoying and that they don't understand the inside and I think people are protesting precisely because they understand the inside. And so forget the conversation of you know that that you know you usually see you know from time. how do I take this? you know rabbit White supremacist and turn them into you know, yeah provide that believes that you know a society quality and that sort of thing within the ostensible left party, you know of America. How does one fight the war within that? like? how did how do you get to the point where they don't view it as a cause? I don't think they're right. I don't think the Republican Party views their activities as a new sense. No, they don't yeah. They see it as an asset right. I. I see it all the time I remember I was in a House oversight Committee and it was one of the early ones and there are quite a few members that are in swing districts on the Democratic and Republican side, and some of them won their races by 12 points. When you look across the aisle, the Republicans that won by one point dig their heels in and double down alright and very often the Democrats that win by one point. To act like conservatives right and so it's it's a difficult thing to measure because the people whose lives get compromised in that position are people like my district in the Bronx and Queens right they don't win from that arrangement and and it is a struggle because there is an intense pressure around this idea of unity Don't challenge the party. don't try to show that there are different, says you know it's like people. Meltdown When I said in a parliamentary democracy, Joe Biden, I will be in a different party and it's not to say that in America in America we are in the same party but it's to say that there are different values and this idea of unity Cannot work. If the only thing we unify is around war and the concentration of wealth and injustice, and if that's the only place you find common grounds, then we have way more. To do. I mean, I'm gonna give you the obvious counter to that, which is to say that you know people in those districts what they would say if they were here was that we can actually help if we're not empowered so why should you know? I been you know, let's say somebody in that they should take a stand that actually might leave me to losing my seat less Democrats in Congress less power excellent. That's something that we hear really often. That's why I I often talk about the importance of dual power in electoral space is sure you need to have the votes you need to have the seeds, but there are limited. To electoral system and that's why we have to be in the streets. you know these a lot of these cities and a lot of dumb now, Democratic or blue communities didn't just end up that way. It's because we see and and we have studied that the long-term impact of activism is the elevation of political consciousness, and that is the work that is so incredibly important because in. In our lifetime States that we consider to be very Red have been blue as early as as recently as the early nineties blew around labor issues blew around anti-poverty agendas and issues. But when we and this is something that I do think the Democratic Party does when we abandoned communities, then we just allow whoever feels that backroom to predominate and I don't believe that we should give. On places like Alabama and Mississippi and Kentucky and Tennessee, I don't think we give up on those places and we just have to commit ourselves to a multi-decade struggle and within that is it the cold fact that some people might lose their seats. You know, I think here's the here's the thing that I I think about that is that this idea that if we are. Enough and forgettable enough, we can secure permanent majorities. I think that's false. Alright and I also think the idea of a permanent majority without delivering change is on tenable and While I understand the Baldwin talked about this King talked about this how long do we have to wait that was literally the title of King's book why we can't wait and I think ultimately, that argument is understandable on certain issues certain I compromised on this because of that, but ultimately, we also have to know what we're willing to lose our seats for and. What we're willing to commit ourselves too because right now, I think the issue with Congress isn't a lack of planning. I think it's a lack of commitment and I also wanna like how much is this that you know because a lot of times what happens is people will confuse to conversations. One conversation is what I'm doing this to maintain. you know a certain majority of political science strategy conversation, but another conversation is. He believes certain things that's right and so like. If I were to ask why is it that the Republican Party is not annoyed by its activists and the Democratic Party is I would have to point to the presence of Wall Street in both parties And whereas you know you you have a coalition of people in the Democratic body. Some of them like yourself, you know represent you know those further to laugh who actually you know question you know our future under capitalism. all way to people that you know, I mean actively you know believing what you believe. It's a good thing. Last, you know, Democratic President believed it was a good thing was on the right. It's not like that. There's no questioning of it of it at all. Yeah and you know and what you said earlier to I wanted to go back to what you said about our. Party. We don't have a left part in the United States. The Democratic Party is not a left party The Democratic Party is a Center or Center Conservative Party. We do not advocate for we do not. We can't even get a floor vote on Medicare for all, not even a floor vote that was voted down. We can't even get a vote on it. So this is not a left party. There are left members inside the Democratic Party that are working to try to make that shift happen but you're right it does convey. Certain sentiment about true believers and There are a lot of true believers in that we can capitalism our way out of poverty in the Democratic Party, if anything that's probably the majority right and that's an area which I agree with Doctor King that that assessment is flawed I have to ask the obvious question that comes out of that. I mean you obviously made a decision you know when you decided to run to work within the Democratic Party to what what are the structural and you you said early in another country you and your buying with obviously not you know be in the same party. What the structural conditions that makes it so somebody like you actually has to work within the party and not you know within you know, applied it. maybe with it hear more to that would be a legit left party. Yeah, well, first of all in. Other democracies in the world, they have a parliamentary democracy where people actually where there are many parties and you build coalitions between parties to have a governing coalition, United States United States. We have a two -party system. I think it's a system that has a vote of little confidence in the electorate when you see that, the largest plurality of voters are independent or not party affiliated that tells you that there's a certain lack Identification I think when you look at multi party systems they because there are more parties, it allows people the opportunity to actually personally identify with a political party in which case it becomes more of an agent of structural change. A lot of people who advocate for kind of a two -party duopoly in the United States. Oh well, the coalition's built in so you don't have to do all that work, but the problem You don't always know what your party stands for and you kinda find out every cycle and I think that is an issue in the Democratic Party. you know just yesterday in New York Times endorsed two candidates. Alright, What is that you don't agree at all like right here and right and it's like well, What is the Democratic Party? If we can't and there are two candidates that are very different right, very different and so I think it it it kinda serves to cloud political consciousness in the United States and also evidently voted for one. That's not running anymore. He was like right number three right I wanna come back to this war question and then we're gonna you know circle back around. I think to the party so you you mentioned earlier. I think the conservative tally since 911 is 250000 civilians. I think it's really important to say that I think in these conversations a lot of times we start with our soldiers, you know and that's no. Respect you know the folks that have sent off or volunteer to go off you know and and fight was on behalf of this country, but I I really this is just me. I believe that ethically you should actually Center people who never ask for it in the first place. I think that's an important thing they do who had no vote. you know about whether there was gonna be your so you're talking about a quarter million. innocent lives lost you are talking about six trillion. I believe the last time I saw when I was doing my research this morning and Then we have this situation in the area, the country that you are obviously very familiar with Puerto Rico. we've had a hurricane Maria that earthquake last year. I wanna ask you two questions. I want you know to the extent that you can. I would like you to speak to the the conditions in Puerto Rico right now, this administration's response to those conditions and what it says about us that we can kill a quarter million people and spend six. Trillion dollars and have the response that we've had to to to Americans. Yeah, of course, well. In terms of the physical, portray, I think that's something that many of us either know or can imagine that there was never any recovery from the infrastructure damage in Hurricane Maria which was primed and positioned for thousands of people to die because of the Promise Act, which was has basically promised any investment generated by the island goes to Wall Street before it goes to our schools before it goes through our hospitals, which just. Prime the infrastructure for an intense amount of destruction after Maria and the earthquakes of course exacerbated that, but I think the thing that's the story. That's not told is the impact on our collective Psychic on the island. no one believes that the United States. Treats them as treats us as full citizens because the United States doesn't and and there is almost kind of mentality that earthquake hit and you know my own family it's like they had all of these emergency back packs ready to go with torches and memories and rations because they knew that no I was gonna come and and that's the cycle and to know that a society does not care for you has a profound impact on one cycle and my it's True whether it's in Puerto Rico, whether it's the Bronx where there's Baltimore or whether it's in any number of communities when society has abandoned you, it has it completely shapes your world view and also you know in terms of my own family. My grandfather died right in the wake of Maria and and my grandmother is now there she's oxygen dependent and when the power goes out, we don't know what's going to happen to her every time and so that. Ability, which is which is a similar kind of instability when you don't have health insurance when your family can't afford insulin when these basic tenants of human dignity are not afforded for certain people. yet you see the United States. Congress approved the largest military budget in years when we not even at war allegedly it tells you that. Destruction of humanity is a higher priority than the preservation and advancement of humanity. I saw you I saw you use the term colonial yes, in reference to America's our relationship with Puerto Rico. Why would you use that time? Well? Puerto Rico is a colony of the United States. people you know they are subjects when you are part of a country and especially one that calls itself a democracy and you do not get to vote or. Say in and your referendums on status, whether it's for independence or statehood, you can have a referendum after referendum. No one 's listening to you anyway. so you don't have a right to self-determination. You don't have a vote in the actual or and you don't have any federal voting representation at all. You are a subject and a country with subjects is a colonial I you know it's actually quite profound because if you extend that out to include say something like Mass incarceration right, absolutely if you extend that out, you know to include something like voter suppression, that's exactly cuz you start to understand you know how that tank you know of colonialism includes you know much more than you know a place that you know too many Americans regardless distant, you know even though it's America I wanna circle back to something and this was a conversation. We had this conversation about billionaires last year and as I'm sure you saw someone there's a lot of response to that. and and I think like you know one of the things I saw. one of the guys say is what I better know how to dispense and deal with my resources. then then the government does. And I wonder what you would you think it had something forgive me for laugh and I'm trying to, but no seriously. I just I wonder what your what your response to me. So I think there's 22 aspects to this one is the idea that we can the underlying idea that you know, billionaires can save us like they, they can charity themselves or ourselves into a just society. I think that's an underlying tenant which I I've just believe is false, but also this idea. Public money inherently belongs in the hands of the government and I disagree with that notion as well. I think that there are certain systems that we share and we can establish the public systems for the sake of scale and for the sake of efficiency health care education etcetera, but there are also there's also this piece that doesn't get discussed, which is basically that they're arguing against people having. Democratic power in our economy, which is a very different different argument. It's to say we can't have different kinds of business models. Business must be exploited if we can't have worker cooperatives or worker owned businesses, all of things that can exist in a quote unquote free market society, but just doesn't follow the rules of concentration of money and power. so I think that that's ultimately the answer because folk first of all, it's like we have to update what is it Mark Twain. That says, you know everyone's just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire now everyone's temporarily embarrassed billionaire and And this idea that the you know that that we can't and also in a democracy. The government is us like. can we just remember that that when when we fight for full and franchise meant when we don't deny the vote when we don't have subjects when we fight for a democracy for the people and by the people, the government is the public and the public decides what is. For itself, and I think that the public has decided that health care as a right is worth fighting for just like education and just like housing. But the problem is all of where the power has already been concentrated and not having to break that monopoly on power or oligopoly on power. can you I just want to drill down at a little bit? more though? why specifically does you know? I'm Joe billionaire I made wedges I sold those widgets. I made billions of dollars. you know, yeah selling those widgets making those widgets. therefore those billions of dollars of mine. Why am I the enemy of health? Well, you didn't make those widgets did you because you employed thousands of people and paid them less than a living wage to make those wishes for you. You didn't make those wedges you sat on a couch while thousands of. Were played modern day slave wages, and in some cases, real slave real modern day slavery depending on where you are in our in in terms of food production. you made that money up off the backs of undocumented people. you made that money off of the backs of black and Brown people being paid off and living way under a living wage, You made that money off of the backs of single mothers and all of these people who are. Dying because they can't afford to live and so no one ever makes a billion dollars. HM you take a billion dollars. And it's not and all of that to say, is that it's and I'm not here to to villainize and to say billionaires are inherently morally corrupt, but they are some disagree with me clearly I mean there. I think there is a case but but it's not. It's not to say that it's to say that the system. We live in life in capitalism always ends in billionaires. If you don't do it, someone else will it's who decides to make that choice is kind of just up to you know circumstance, but this thing that we live in starves people and that's why we have to fight for an advanced society and you know for that. I am called a radical. I am called this every name in the. but I just happen to have the view that humanity has lived in many systems and many ways that we organize our society. We have lived through monarchy. We have lived through slavery accuracy. We have lived. you know Indiana, the times of societies that our ancestors established and were decimated. But all of this is temporary. mercantilism is temporary slave accuracy evolved into Jim. Evolved into American apart Tide, but I I believe that Mercantile Dam was temporary and King talked about this too. You know we talk about King No one talks about the dangerous King. No one talks about the Anti-capitalist King. No one talks about the Antipoverty King and I believe that where we are right now are at the edges of an untenable system that is starting to crack so if you have I don't make widgets. I just wanna be clear. I don't even like widgets if if you have so I'm not sitting here. Bill Gates is sitting here. he's you know patting himself on the back has been added. You know on the back for this the pledge to give away extra amount of dollars you have mentioned earlier that charity isn't sufficient. that perhaps it shouldn't be you know up to you in the first place to say, hey, I'm going to have my own. You know giveaway XL number dollars or whatever what can billionaire Joe do right now right now to not you know, I mean, Yeah, I you know. I think Cannot plague the world. It's in. it's an excellent. I think it's an excellent question. I think that that giving this is not to say that charity is. Right, but also it's important than who we give to and we have to also not a systemic answer right and it's not a stomach answer because if you're a billionaire and you wanna do good and I think what you need to do is advocate first of all change your business model Hmm. That's the first one. if Jeff Basil's he don't have to be Amazon. If Jeff Basil's wants to be a good person, he turned Amazon to a walk worker cooperative. Alright, Well, you know like not what do I do with all of this money that I have created with this unjust system and if. If you're a billionaire, that means that you control a massive system, it means that you own oil supplies. It means that you control textiles. It means that you have a massive labor force under your control and to be ethical. If you're a billionaire today, the thing that you need to do is give up control and power. so I don't want your money as. As we want your power, the people not me that's gonna get cut and clipped. It's all gonna get cut. It's all gonna get cut and clipped but but seriously if you we don't want to demand for a billionaire to fund this or that what we want to demand is to change the systems change the business model that has exploited so many people so that someone could have a billion dollar. I mean how many people here have worked a minimum wage job or worked in hospitality or just straight up. Know if they were gonna make rent at the end of the month and in the most advanced society and the most wealthy society, you know, it's not because there's a lack of resources. It's because we are dependent on a system that keeps most people at the the biting edges so that someone can have a helipad personal one. Yeah, you know, I wonder what these conversations have historically like been for. Within your family and your closest community members, I find and I'll just speak. you know you know be an African American and coming up. you know in a period of hip hop and around people who have not had and probably aspire to some of the symbols and some of the objects that capitalism promises out. It strikes me that we kinda have a difficult task because we have to organize around a group of people who've been held you know from. Certain things and almost at the same time, say them yeah, you shouldn't want those things. I don't. I don't even think that it's that we shouldn't want those things because we it's you know what we advocate for is not about doing without well. Let me let me be a little bit more specific. I think in a lot of the music and culture that comes out of our community ideas being a billionaire not seen it. Oh yeah. Well I I think about this too because even on a small level, it's like when people criticize folks in my. Where folks in the Bronx for like having new Jordans right and they go into this whole respectability politics saying that's just it's a black hole but it I think the thing about that too is that the reason why I think there's a drive for it and why frankly, it feels good to like floss and the next defense of outfit is because we're not supposed to have those things is. It's almost like an act of rebellion because we've been baked in and we know that like for the longest period of time like where the people that go without right, It's like it's my grandmother's enough power, which doesn't have oxygen and so it's like a for communities that have been marginalized to be able to have these things. It's how I felt when I first walked into Congress and I saw my plaque kind of next to my office and I was like I'm not supposed to be here. I'm not supposed to have this. I'm gonna get found out and but it felt like it felt very. Up ending like there was a crack in the system, and I think that sometimes we feel that way whether it's a pair of new Jordans or whether it's like a music video and I think that's okay, you know I I think it's totally fine and human and natural to feel that way. so my joints okay. I think your Jordans are okay. You know it's like if we live if we live in it, then like living it while fighting for a better world right right. so you know we we've You spent a lot of time talking about policy and obviously you have you know an agenda and a set of policy beliefs but there is I think a level of attention that comes to you and I wanna broaden this out to the squad in general that may go beyond policy. on the one hand, you know I saw for instance, Presley and you know the thing that she did her Alopecia power. And I think this response is testament to it right like what that symbolizes what that means you know at the same time, I think that I know that there are other people in this country. who you guys symbolize something else for you know and as I said at the at the top of the conversation, when you have a situation where the President of the United States it's literally using and I just you know. listen, you know I pay for this later or no. I don't care whatever I just don't think if it's you know if Omar is not a black woman who wears a head wrap, I don't think it happens like that. Absolutely. I just don't think you. Don't believe it, I don't think it works and so I wonder you know we had this conversation last year about social media. I just wanna broaden that out because I don't think like maybe four or five years ago, you could have seen this right now and so I wonder how you and for you in general deal with the intense violence tinged response that you get well, I think. One thing that is important to just say is that it does take a toll. It does take a tool it and it takes a toll on on us and we are prominent, but it's the same kind of toll that it takes on activists in the streets, especially black women fighting endlessly day in and day out all of that. it takes a toll you know alopecia. Is an autoimmune disorder that is exacerbated by stress when I was running, I've lost like 10 pounds that I didn't have to lose like all of this takes a toll. so it's not to say that like oh water off a duck's back. it ain't no thing. It is a thing right but I do think that the thing that you know I was in and speaking of Indiana, you know I remember talking to her. a couple of months ago and we were it was literally like we were in a bathroom in the capital and we are like snack off to five space together um because it feel so ah hashtag and chronically hostel ah but we are in the bathroom together and she said you know we have a lot and it's more than this but still the only thing we have is each other We consciously four of us talk about sisterhood all the time and that we have decided we have made an active commitment to each other above all. Everything else and that transcends politics it transcends all of this. we have made a commitment to each other and I think. System and an environment like today whether you're talking about late stage capitalism where you're talking about racism where you talk about the President where you just talking about just the difficulties of life Sisterhood can defeat almost all of it. And And like that kind of family commitment like when we say we're family like we decide you know it's like going into this presidential or what have like our sisterhood is more important. We've decided that's it, and that doesn't mean that we're the same all the time always, but what it means is that it's not like a lot. It's not a a unity thing. It's a commitment thing. And so I think that's a huge part of it and also you know it's like having supportive friends relationships like the community aspect to our everyday life is the antidote to to the ravages of this in our personal lives, and it's no coincidence that as the work days get longer because you're making the same on longer hours that the thing that gets sacrificed is that. Of your day that used to be dedicated to community like when the labor movement was really active and what it was eight hours for sleep eight hours for work, eight hours for what you will. We don't have that eight hours for what you will because that eight hours for what you will was church, It was your girl Scout troop. It was those elements of community, which when you get people together committed to each other for long enough, they start to challenge power. And so it serves a dual purpose but that commitment like if you walk out today and you don't have that commitment in your life like create a seed. it started because it will transform you. I I go back to the last thing you said and that is that it does take a toll. There are people who come in to Congress and they come to politics period and they can do it for long periods of time. It can be their lives and you know I don't wanna be presumptuous but you're so open and and honest and accessible. I just wonder is this like do you see yourself with the career? Like is that it or are you exercising? I don't I don't know you know people talk to me all the time like that was just kind of Holler like about running for higher office. I don't even mean that though I would just like a career in politics in general and I just feel like I get into too much trouble for that and and you know I I just came here from a breakfast with clergy in the Bronx and one of the things that I said was first of all. I didn't go into this with a plan. For me, the approach that I take is I have less of a plan. I'm just waiting to see what the plan is for me and that may be just like packing up my things and moving to a cabin somewhere and like being a lumberjack. I don't know why, but I don't know what shape or what form my life will take and I don't impose a plan on it because I have given it myself. In my context of things, I have given it to a higher power. I think that's a great note to end on Congresswoman Ocasio Cortez thank you so much. Thank you for coming back. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. thank











