Hello facebook this is cory goldstone on the communications associate at the campaign legal Center now joined here by Paul Smith vice President litigation strategy at the campaign legal Center and we're here to talk today about person terry many Paul has argued 19 court cases before the Supreme So we found out news that the Supreme court will hear oral arguments and build the Bird which is wisconsin's partisan gerrymandering case and it has the potential to curb the practice of Wide so we're gonna start with the basic spa what is gerrymandering gerrymandering is uh something I guess most people have some sets of which is drawing the district lines to the particular state congressional district legislative districts in such a way that one party gets extra bang for the buck of the other party has their votes to it at so so that that you might might in benefit thick with with active active terry very uh uh if if the the voters voters split split 50 51 50 51 party party like like it it two two thirds thirds of of the the seats seats to to the the other other party party one one third third of the the seats seats uh uh it's it's a fairly fairly common common practice practice but but it it has has gotten gotten more more severe severe in in recent recent years years the the way way you you do do is is very very simple simple still still great great secret secret to to waste waste as as many many votes votes as as possible possible of of your your opposing opposing party party either by packing for the voters of that party in the district where they are like 90 percent concentrations or by having the lose a lot of districts fairly narrowly like 55 45 and so all those books are wasted in those districts of the party that either has not all the way to the 90 percent district and mostly waste a lot of it just to carry one district 90 percent district and if they lose a lot of district 55 to 45 and all those wasted to and so they get very few district even if they have half the votes okay so why did this core okay succeed where others fail Hey case study that was even than others well the wisconsin case which is what the court is going to be rolling on this coming term uh a rose because the Republicans in the wisconsin complete control of the state government in the 20 to 10 election uh and decided that they would try to maximize the number of Republican seats in the Legislature in the Assembly um and they want about a very aggressively that they got a room in a law firm block it and put a few experts in there and pushed and pushed the envelope to the point where they have a really extreme sharia and in 20 12 elections the Democrats did very well in wisconsin bama carry this day uh tammy baldwin won the state as a Democrat for Senate uh the Republicans got only about 48 percent of the vote stay wide for the Assembly and got 60 percent of the seats so I tell them it's a pretty effective Because as result of that would for play this decided to soon saying that really has to be some way in which the constitution speaks to this this right discrimination using the law to favor one group of people over another people Do it part of affiliation why should that be legal Fun they actually turned out to be quite successful with their was a trial uh trials and cases like this are held in front of a panel of three judges they heard all the evidence and rule to the one that this is in fact a unconstitutional partisan gerrymandering goes too far up their lot of new social sites measures that they used to try to come to that conclusion is persuade the court that this was such a case and they were successful now we'll find out if that case will be the vehicle for the Supreme court establishing meaningful limits the You so what makes partisan gerrymandering different from Sure Short cheering caring and and racial racial gerrymandering gerrymandering is is a a term term that that really really refers refers to to something something very very different different racial racial gerrymandering gerrymandering arose arose back back in in the the nineties nineties and and the the cases cases that that are are about about their their said said to to be be racial racial gerrymandering gerrymandering cases cases involved involved a a specific specific district district or or districts districts that that are are minority minority districts districts of in majority majority minority minority districts districts uh uh typically typically in in the the nineties nineties they they were were drawing drawing incredibly incredibly ugly ugly way way to to try try to to capture capture as as many many black black latino latino to to the the district district of this this the the court court decided decided that that those those kinds kinds of of district district sent sent to to great great a a message message about about the the predominance predominance of of racial racial considerations considerations in in the the drawing drawing along along and and they they said said you you can't can't over over consideration consideration kit kit give give it it to to predominant predominant role role of of drawing drawing along along as as you you can can it it tickles tickles going going in in every every direction direction and and things things like like that that but but it's it's really really a a racial racial gerrymandering gerrymandering is is a a limitation limitation on on how how and and where where you you can can draw draw the the northern northern districts districts then then it it may may just just be be one one district district and and involved involved in the the case case partisan partisan gerrymandering gerrymandering by by it's it's very very nature nature is is about about the the entire entire math math and and whether whether or or not not the the lines lines are are drawn drawn in in such such a a way way systematically systematically to to give give one one party party the the advantage advantage over over the the other other state stay woke walk it's this quite quite different different even even though though they they ever ever since since almost almost the the same same that yeah yeah yeah yeah and and with with the the tentacles tentacles and and all all that that and and what what exactly exactly makes makes this this case case different different because because it's it's not not it's it's not not really really about about um um the the shape shape of of the the district district percent percent so so I I really really like like that that to to coming coming there there is is conception conception never never there there are are some some Jerry Jerry managers managers partisan partisan mentors mentors that that have have very very ugly ugly districts districts here here the the districts districts don't don't have have the the the the tentacles tentacles if if you you really really know know the the situation situation on on the the ground ground in in wisconsin wisconsin you you can can tell tell that that they they buy buy selected selected important important concentrations concentrations of of Democratic Democratic population population and and things things like like that that that that they they they they really really make make no no sense sense in in any any spin spin any any terms terms other other than than part part isn't isn't a a benefit benefit but but but but you you just just look look at at the the map map and and said said that's that's the the ugliest ugliest man man if if I I ever ever saw saw but but the the truth truth is is you you can can achieve achieve a a very very high high degree degree of of bias bias of of a a partisan partisan advantage advantage that that you you don't don't know know you're you're not not old old of of without without making making the the district district ugly ugly if if you're you're very very good good at at it it and and one one of of the the things things that's that's happened happened in in recent recent years years that that is is the the advent advent of of very very sophisticated sophisticated computer computer technology technology that that helps helps the the map map for for our our achieve achieve as as you you can can basically basically go go block block by by block block uh uh precinct precinct by by precinct precinct and people in and out of the district and very carefully find tune the results uh so that you can even without drawing extraordinarily an unusual looking districts get this kind of high degree of bias that looking that translates 48 percent of the voters of So now that the Supreme court has agreed to hear or arguments what can people expect over the next several months and what are the possibilities well spring court cases take a little time we'll be writing briefs all summer recently Britain submission to go to the Supreme court then what the party will be arguing in those out of those breezes whether or not the place he really did succeed in making out the valid claim of parts and gerrymandering under the constitution of the state of wisconsin where everything we didn't we'll be doing that we did and it will culminate in the early fall in it or argument in the Supreme court uh after the presure in for argument in the Supreme court is surprisingly short with most of what I wanted to see one the side gets half an hour huh you stand up there and you're basically peppered with questions we're happy to sit down so you if you can imagine while sometimes cases turn on the organ what's more important of this 50 page for our truly Sensible time then there will be a period of months while the Supreme court decides a case and is writing opinions we probably wouldn't learn that whether we lost this case The team hopefully pretty early in 20 eighteen because we very much like to have if we win new districts in place for the 28 We just really really plan plan if if we we want want to to push push very very hard hard for for that that okay okay and and if if we we do do in in what what would would the the impact impact be be the the entire entire practice practice of of partisan partisan gerrymandering gerrymandering nationwide nationwide well well attention attention if if we we do do where where they they will will be be changing changing the the map map of of wisconsin wisconsin and and they they were were very very for for the the may may very very well well be be some some other other losses lawsuits fall fall around around the the country country some some of of them them are are already already pending pending in in Maryland Maryland and Illinois Illinois involving involving Democratic Democratic carrie carry mentors mentors uh uh because because of of alien alien the Republican Republican Dream Dream eater eater you'll you'll see see more more of of those those losses losses and and you you know know some some of of those those will will be be successful successful if if we we want won this this case case there there are are a lot lot of of extreme extreme Jerry Jerry mentors mentors little little little little practice practice of of doing doing this this is is gotten gotten more more extreme extreme now now that that it's it's ever ever been been before before but but the the most most important important benefit benefit I I think think will will be be after after the the senses senses of of 20 20 20 20 every every States state's gonna gonna have have three to redraw draw their their districts districts in in the the math math will will know know is as they're they're sitting sitting down down to to do do this this in in early early 20 21 20 21 that that if if they they follow follow the the old old playbook playbook if if they they continue continue to to try try to to introduce introduce as as much much advice advice as as I I can can into into the the math math of of their their creating creating great great risk risk for for themselves themself that that a a court court would would throw throw out out that that map map I um maybe maybe we'll would redraw redraw the the districts districts itself itself so so we we can can make make this this map master drawers ours are are highly highly motivated motivated to to try try to to stay stay within within the the boundaries boundaries of of whatever whatever the the case case law law says says they they can can do do they they can't can't do do and and if if if if we we now now sadly sadly for for the the first first time time and and effective effective limitation limitation on on parts cars and and gerrymandering gerrymandering in in place place there there will will be be a a real real game game shade changer in in terms terms of of how how these these districts districts are are allocated allocated um was so States becoming more of the represented in the Democratic direction of some States becoming more fairly representative Republican direction uh there's something connection speak impact on House of representatives as well so I think it really is one of the more important cases some of the President reporting more important cases and come along in the court quite want to laugh You if you're interested in following the conversation further please sign up for email updates on our website Like the top right corner or you could learn more about plated stories by going to goo