Good morning and welcome my name is katherine harrison. I'm the director of global offering management for black chain and I am thrilled to be here to welcome all of you to a discussion about overcoming bias in the tech industry. We are joined by three very accomplished women to talk about this important subject. First, we have diane pearson who is the chief human resources officer and for bm diane has champion Ai and inclusion programs for bm next we have emily chang, who is the executive producer and anchor for Bloomberg technology and she's also the New York times best selling. Author of a breaking up the boys club of silicon Valley and finally, we have in he's a who's the of watson customer engagement which is a multi billion dollar business focused on emerging technology, like machine learning Black teen thank you so much for being here. Let's get started thanks very much. Um so I was thrilled to get the the book brought opiate landing on my desk sometime after the holidays and just about it. It it was a pretty amazing book. So thank you, emily for opening up all our eyes to what's going on here in the heart of tech in in Francisco and silicon Valley, one of the things that I was really struck by was how you want covered the history of how we got to where we are and so I wanted to ask for um Your if you could sum up your thesis on how do we get get from 8 AM lovelace and um grace hopper to uh you know susan fowler alice pow, like how do we get from there to here. Well so the history actually for me, was kind of the smoking gun and that's where I found the most material that really surprised me and so you know of course, there was a lovely And if you go back to the 19 forties and 19 fifties, women actually played a huge role in software programming, men were mostly making the hardware but actually, when you looked at software women were very well represented and they they were programming computers for the military and programming computers for Nasa and it really was like hidden figures the movie, movie, but industry wide and then, as the industry started to explode in the 60 s and 70 s tech companies were desperate for new talent and the idea that program Sort of this black art and that you were born with it. You can be be trained became almost ingrained. Um and the software company, big software company that I'm hired to psychologists to develop a personality test to identify good programmers and they decided to few things. One that good programmers, like solving puzzles that make sense um the other was that good programmers don't like people like literally quote in the paper they say good programmers don't like Grateful um and so two things. If you look for people who don't like people generally you'll hire more men than women glad, your chocolate um but also there's. No evidence to support the idea that people who don't like people are better at this job than people who do or that men are better at this job than women but that combined with the profession, taking on higher status and higher pay, lead to women basically being profiled and pushed out of the industry and so in 19 eighty four women hit the high point of earning computer science degrees. They were earned 37 percent of computer science degrees in 19 eighty four St near that the matt came out and that has since plummeted to Eighteen percent where it's been flat for the last decade and you see about the same trend when it comes to tech jobs and this mostly White antisocial male nerd stereotype persists to this day and people think that movies and television created at our pop culture created it. But in fact the tech industry created it and I argue in the book yes, there is a pipeline problem, but the tech industry created the pipeline problem and only reinforces it today. Alright. You know I struggle to see that you can Lamented that the reason so many women were attacked in the 60 s was that most companies were using the program a aptitude test which we still use the very end up inside of um, which is the hat and uh and that you know that science that gender neutral capability um it's so important to selection I've been never went down the root of that. You know profiling uh and I have to believe that's one of the reasons why you know our head of uh general manager for watching custom Engagement, our general manager for our general manager, our general manager for at watson health our ceo or all women, um because we've been able to continue to use gender neutral selection approaches so that was fascinating so now when you think about um the moment that we're in and um and your book appeared at such an interesting moment, um do you think we're at an inflection point or what we feel about where we're going so first of all, I had no That we would be in this moment. I started writing this book two and a half years ago and it could have been like a tree falling in the forest forest called to be a um and I really benefited over the course of my reporting process from the momentum on this issue. Really changing and women finding their collective courage and sharing their stories and there were so many women that I talked with the began the process that said to me, no absolutely not I'm never gonna go on the record And towards the end they were, like you know what I think I'm ready. I think I'm ready to share my story. I am so encouraged by the reporting we've seen over the last year and the women who have spoken up and you know there's been some incredible reporting at least on you know, women in silicon Valley by the New York times and by the information and by Bloomberg you know I was you know, part of a team that exposed one particular investor um and I think that is really important um and I do believe I believe that we are seeing a movement right now. My biggest fear is that it's just a moment in just a moment, but I believe that it really is a movement. However, this conversation needs to keep happening and it needs to be more action than talk if we are going to see real change and I think that to see real change, we need to see the numbers really shift because that's the only way culture is really going to shift and the only way that acceptance and you know some of these buyers Since that have held this industry back for so long are going to be exploded right. Yeah. I would say um I definitely think we're at an inflection moment and the reason for that actually is just the sheer pace of technology and the transparency of of some of the capabilities are available now and we think about uh in particular uh with watson and others and you think about the intentional training required the data sets. I thought you post a great question in the book which is you know, what's the consequence of had Playing only one type of person or one type of profiler tribal set ultimately having access to so much technology that you know affects our children every single day that effect society in so many different implications and that will actually automate decisions where you might wanna interject things like training and accuracy and governance or moral judgements and to think you have a very small population training. This advance technology is to be a very scary thought, so when I think about the advancement and and the potential we're, an unbelievable inflection point, I think Your buck is at the perfect timing to help educate people to think about more systematic and program at icc programs that actually put real implementation and advancement for women and and just sort of a diverse perspective, quite frankly, for companies to adopt so there was a great study the researcher at Microsoft recently did who interviewed on the show where she found that facial recognition technology doesn't work as well for women and people of color as it does for White men yeah simply because of how the algorithms have been built and we're at the risk of All of that discrimination being rewritten, run to the technology of the future, because I can machine learning is only going to become more powerful and we want this technology to work for everyone. You know billions and billions of people are are are using it and it makes no sense that face it wouldn't work for me when it works for you know the men who created the phone oh absolutely and I've been reading up on this too. You know, like you said skin color pigmentation um in terms of lighting of how the camera picks up and we use the camera every single day for video conferencing for photography, for a number of reasons right um. If you think about, even passport control um being Asian us. Sometimes because of the way your eyes Structure is, if you can't see visually the automatically into in terms of path for controls. It's actually flag does not being a valid passport. I mean that's just bad programming. Quite frankly, I mean that Union oh, what that exist today. So that's intentional designer, lack thereof and this is unconscious bias. Some of it is a bit I think I'd die and I had an earlier conversation about it bit humorous in terms of thinking. Oh, no, I know how to build the best technology and me and uh my small Group of a narrow minded buddies might be the right set actually designed for the world so I totally agree. I mean some of it is intentional. Some of it is done completely with with no malice intention but very narrow view with what's possible so here's. Another example of that I was interviewing in the book. I interview ed Williams, who is the Co founder of twitter and I said what do you think if more women had been on the early twitter team with online harassment and trolling be such a problem and he was like actually I don't think it would be as big of a problem isn't, we were not thinking about that at all. We were thinking about wonderful and amazing things that could be done with twitter and not how could be used to send death threats, rape threats and you know, women are on the receiving end of the most extreme forms of online harassment and I'd argue that this is one of the biggest problems on the Internet today, which one of the biggest problems in the world today imagine if the Internet was a friendlier place and, like I fully believe and alternate and better universe awaits us, if we are able to include everyone in the bill Think of these products, but we can't wait another 30 years of me asking those questions. What, if women had to see it at the table, let's do it now right. So one absolutely thank you. What do you think that came across in your book was uh women didn't know how to um avoid choking choking the pipeline. You know that their was thinking use that phrase right that that's somehow um even though there was this unconscious bias and there was the systemic discrimination and there was this cooper s and all those things were making women wit enter and almost conclude with all of that in in silicon Valley Valley, do you see that changing while you know it's interesting There are many women that I've spoken with since the book who you know, worked at at Intel for 20 30 years and they said actually earlier in the career was easier for me than it is now. Um and I think part of the problem is just being so isolated for so long. You know I've interviewed 12 women engineers about three weeks after susan followers blog post. They all came over to my House. You know, companies big and small actually there's. One for my bm she's going to get buck yeah um and you know they talk How you you know, day today, it's just exhausting being the only woman in the room over and over again, um and there's. This feeling of having having to prove yourself because you are the only um and if you are the only black woman, are the only you know. Black woman who didn't go to College. You know maybe your latina. I had there was a trans woman in that group. You know you can't put up double or triple. How exhausting it is um and so you know it is it is just so interesting what it's like navigating this world But it's so difficult to pinpoint and call out some of these more, you know it's smaller things that just pile up where, as the egregious behavior you know, I think we can all agree, crosses the line it's hard to say. Well, that guy interrupted me or I'm being man's blamed or um. You know I'm missing out on this opportunity um and so you know it. I just think you know for women in particular there's. This feeling of a loneliness S and women are actually more likely to be competitive with other women when they're when they believe there's only room for one. So there's only one woman on the board or one woman on an executive team. They're actually less likely to help other women. Um but if there's three they're, much more likely to help other women which is far more natural right and there's plenty of studies that show that diverse teams create better results, more innovative products make more money in fact, there was a study that the date of like two million companies in Europe that showed, if you just replace one man with one woman on an executive team, profitability goes up by three to eight percent Should companies be run entirely by women actually if you get to over 60 percent women then you start to see diminishing returns so it's really that it's really that balance that is better and is in fact more natural. Yeah yeah I saw study Thomas and mighty idea study where he tried to understand if you added more women with the innovation improve and um any thought they would stop. It like 50 percent he kept patting them and it just kept getting better and better and eventually, just gave up fixing, using think there is a limit so that's interesting that there was this other study um. I wanted to just talk about Net about the potential and in some cases already backlash against the um the recent um, the recent surge of women supporting women, um and the social uh effects of that. We had James d'amore at Google and and he represents you know of the backlash of against that. How do you see that playing out do you think that's going to continue. Do you think women know how to deal with it. What what are the lessons learned from that so, first of all, I think James Mar was repeating the same toxic assumption that those psychologist made 50 60 years ago and it shows how persistent and rigid that stereotype has become. You know he is argue argue that men are biologically more suited to this job than women and even the people. He cites disagree with. How he uses their data and there is zero evidence, like zero evidence um that supports the idea that that men are better at this job. Now I do know that there are many men and many men who are Guys who are scared or don't know how to behave now, like can I give you a hug. Can I say the dress looks nice, nice, like I don't know um and to be honest. My first reaction to that was come on. I think most of us know where the line is that said, you know I do sympathize with this idea that there is a lot of discomfort right now and I also think that no good change without comes without some people feeling a little uncomfortable and right now we're in this transition period we're all gonna kinda figure. It out and we're gonna have this conversation and we should Having these conversations and men and women should be part of these conversations and I'm so so glad that our men and women in this audience in fact, as I'm going around and talking, like I want to talk to men and women. I don't wanna talk to just women um, but you know we all have a responsibility and men, especially to mentor, to advocate to call things out when you see it. It can be a lot lot easier for us as bystanders and witnesses to say you know what I think that young woman really deserves enough deserves a chance right now, rather than her saying hey. I You kind of interrupted me can you not do that. Um and so that's something that really man can do and and and mentorship and advocacy is something that we all need to participate in an I've benefited from men and women. Um mentoring me um but to say you're, not gonna meet along with the woman, are mentor woman or travel that's just ridiculous that's ridiculous. I could so in love with your thoughts. Well, I was thinking about you know, first of all, you have to separate a a little bit and individuals comments or individuals, thoughts from what the institution where the company um really allows the environment to kinda supporter, not Support and I think companies have to be committed to programs that benefit you know diversity and inclusion. Now. I would say say I've been a beneficiary of been an idea for along time 19 years and, through it I've been amazed at not just the history of the company but kind of the way in which our our culture amongst I'd beamers um as a whole is either tolerant or not tolerant, of certain types of behavior so we actually self moderate as well so, like a simple example um and we sort of take this for granted because we talk about hey, we need more women in the pipeline. We need more women in executive Possessions, we actually had our very first women uh vice President in 19 43 and she was 27 years old. She was actually the youngest of vp. She was actually for the industry and was came right. Outta here. Oakland California California so she's a California gal um and then she worked in multiple places Atlanta Georgia in New York and uh became actually one of the thought leaders within I've been around training, education, development of women so when I think about That history and sort of the culture that you create, that's an institutional thing that has to be implemented in problematic way without full programs around mentorship and and and um technical advancement and certain policies that you wanna you know. Think. Through and those are things that I would say a benefited from so um and there's alot here I think all other companies here in the Valley should do more of quite frankly and you know I do agree that change needs to come from the top and I mean, like Man that God is running. She is already um companies need to not only make this an explicit priority but give people the tools to help themselves if you just focus on raising awareness about bias. It's not necessarily gonna have a huge impact, but if you give people the tools to combat their bias, that can have an impact so maybe when it comes to hiring that's not even starting an interview interview process until you have qualified female candidates and qualified candidates of color structuring the interview process so you are asking everyone the same questions because someone walks into the interview and they look the part you're gonna ask them completely different questions It's been someone who doesn't want them. What look the part you know, recruiting sourcing all you know all of that is very important and then it's about retaining and progressing. You know know some of the most interesting data. I found was that women are twice as likely to quit tech as men but they're not going to take care of their families, their leaving for jobs in other fields and in fact there are 800 percent more likely to leave jobs and technology than they are to leave jobs in other fields and the reasons they leave are not feeling, valued hostel in Retirement, not feeling like they're learning or progressing and you know those are things that men and women want. Um and so there's so much that can be done to create cultures where people feel like they're valued, like they can be their authentic. Selves where they can be as productive as you want them to be and so you know, there are plenty of bad examples in the Valley and I cover some of those in the book. There are some good examples as well, and I talk about the company called Black which I'm sure you know know actually think I've been a partnership with a um it's stuart stuart baer yes, we'll also first fall fall stuart is very proactive. He's very vocal about it and every time he tweets about you know how important this is to him. They get a spike in inbound interest, so just saying you care attract other people who care you'll be surprise how powerful it is and I do think that him all the way up to the top. You know, communicating that this is important. You know everybody is falling in line, but they're not looking for you know just young kids out of College College they're looking for grown ups and their motto is work hard and go Home and so they're looking for employees that they can support over the course of a long career career which you know ibm II know has you know, is very diverse workforce in terms of age, um and so you know, we were trying to create sustainable companies not just a flash in the pan yeah. What I think your point on you know. There should be more sharing of stories that actually work. I know there's, a lot of discussions about all the things that we know we don't like um but sharing the best practices um one of the the things we've been intentionally focused here has actually been around uh women and under represent minorities and different Ages and their career, you talked about hey there's one thing which is the inbound uh recruitment aspects. There's. Another about progression and retention and so we've launched a couple of programs. One is around tech re entry, so women that may have left for other industries or particular stop in their career because they want it dedicated hundred percent and their time to their children and family uh the opportunity come back and actually in a very intentional setting where they're trained into new technology areas and then getting to work on block chain or quantum computing Ray, so that's one of the areas that we focused on another is We did a study actually pervasive Lee with an idea and then out externally to where they're sort of this uh not. I would say plateau in but slowing down at the mid career level and part of that is you know, the lack of or access to the proper mentorship. Maybe it's more training around business or financial acumen. Maybe it's technical, technical opportunities to work on the projects that it in you know, innovate in terms of next generation of patent sense of what of the other program program we thought through intentionally was called elevate where we wanted to bring pro automatically over just the last couple of years 600 women with with proper development, training shadowing mentorship to actually Get them into executive positions, whether it's in the technical tracker business track but I would love to hear you know across the industry quite frankly more of a sharing of here. The things that are working and, like love, to see us be accountable to each other. That's terrific so, let's talk, a little bit about where we go from here uh when you think about next steps um. What are some of the things that we could all be doing differently to get this inflection point to truly be an inflection point, so you know, I We all have a role to play here. Men and women. I think we need to listen to each other more. We need to ask more. We need to talk about these things. Some people don't wanna talk about their personal lives at work and that's totally fine, but I do think that being able to bring your whole self to work, whatever that is and I know this is something that sheryl sandberg has talked a lot about lately. You know that's really important. You know I think sometimes we don't even we don't know what the person sitting next to us is going through um and it would probably online Some frustration, the more you want you have have these conversations and we need to create safe spaces to talk about this so for you know it is I'm I'm so glad women have spoken up and women need to continue to speak up that's that's the bottom line, but it is not all on women um that said, we do need to create safe spaces where, where people can talk about these things and I think that managers actually have a huge role to play, there um and also have a huge role to play, is one of modeling you know what is acceptable and what you understand and so, if someone needs to leave early, you know, I do leave work to pick up my kids um and I always felt guilty about it and And our editor in chief's and out of note that said, you know we really literally was like. We really value diversity and parents and we want people to feel like they can pick up their kids and I was like so I could do it and feel 25 percent less guilty right, like that actually made a difference to me um and so that's where the you know what the the leadership is saying were that were that really really matters and then I said it is about creating structures within the company. You know structured review and feedback systems, not just structured interview questions so that people are getting promoted and opportunity is getting doled out over and over again More equal ways and that that bias isn't creeping into the process and hear your thoughts yeah. I was uh. I was thinking um. I also benefited from some of the paid family leave policies. Cuz. This is actually one of the. We were um ranked one by the New York times a month, large companies so right now ibm is extended actually for moms to get 20 weeks of paid leave and for dads, for partners For adoptive parents to get 12 weeks and part of that is also thinking thoughtfully at first of all, I'm a mom of two young boys very active physical uh. Three young boys so yeah um. I have two boys so yeah and our goals are partly to help develop men. That appreciate really strong women to um so when we think about you know that next generation of both family members um that are are contributing back into society and into business as well as that balance, you have to be thoughtful about the flexibility um, but also risk I think one of kind of some of the maturity that comes quite frankly of being a parent and the empathy that comes from that and understanding some of the bigger challenges in life and in your community that you're trying to intersect the problem solving for business technology and society so and I also think it's not just giving people to leave but encouraging them to take it, especially dads um and you know my husband works in startups and so he took two weeks, two weeks um and I'm at like if you had taken those three months like oh my goodness, he would have just understood so much more um. What I have gone through Um but actually before we came up here, he actually sent me a New York times. Article that was called. How raising boys how do we raise boys to be good guys and so I do think that we all, as you know, I hear so often we need this for our girls. I have a daughter. I care about her so much and, like what I have dones, I want this for them um you know I think their lives will be better and more equal world world and so we all have a role to play. Parents, teachers, but really the industry and is what is argue the industry could be very transformative very exciting, so that Power to make change lies with us. That's the basic message right. Um now we're gonna get the opportunity to hear the questions from the folks in the room and also on facebook, live and where do we start you've got the questions. Andrea and the audience with the audience. Any questions from the audience Yes, hi are you thank you so much. Thank you so much for your commentary and your thoughtful exploration of this topic. Um it's really interesting getting to hear from you as parents and I wanted to hear a little bit more especially here in the Bay area. We have all this hype about young people um and I'd love to hear more about what your thoughts are for folks later later in there, career, particularly, how that affects women, whether they be parents were not up maybe I'll start um one one of of the the things things I I started started to to when when I I became became a a manager, manager, so, so, let's let's see see your your first first line line manager manager and and I I had had a a team team and and this this was was even even before before I I was was a a parent, parent, but but it's it's just just made made it it very very clear clear for for everybody. everybody. I I said said look, look, if if you you have have um um expect, expect, obviously, obviously, you you didn't didn't get get your your day day job job done, done, but but if if you you have have commitments, commitments, whether whether it's it's because because your your kids kids have have extra extra curricular curricular activities activities in in the the evenings, evenings, whether whether it's it's because because you you personally personally are are part part of of the the sports sports club, club, it it don't don't have have to to be be only only the the benefits benefits because because you're you're a parent or child that you get to leave My particular time because you have to get something done might have a plant that needs water. It needs watery but it's it's about thinking about your whole self and bringing your whole self in the healthiest way back to the office mentally physically and what that encompasses meaning hey. You should use thoughtfully and manage your time appropriately and you shouldn't have to apologize for that so if you do need just give proper notice make sure there's, a clear back up but um it's more of really taking ownership of part of that so, clarity of communication, saying it's totally okay to do that and whether or not your parent or single it with child or not um your Catching that whole self in bringing your whole self to the office so that's one of the pieces which is as a manager. You can even have that straight forward conversation to say hey. This is the way I prefer dough the work um. I once I became a mom actually uh one of the things I did and this at this point I was an executive, so I made it very clear to my executive team and to my managers that look I want to work very particular hours on certain days because I wanna either be with my kids Breakfast are wanna be with my kids at dinner and I can't miss both meals every single day of the week right so their end so I'm willing to do calls if you're willing to do calls earlier so I give the option to the other person and say would you like to do it, even earlier than you just gave me which may be before the kids wake up or would you like to talk to me after they go to bed often what I've I've discovered is. Those individuals will say majority of the time. No. Thank you I'll just reschedule. It on the following day or another day and that sense of urgency They sell filter because they realized wow is this person willing to prioritize their time on a personal level that to really fit those aspects. Um then maybe the request wasn't nearly as urgent so when it did was sort of filter and made it very clear here. These are the days that I want to take my kids to school but the other days are flexible in the morning and then um so part of that is about clarity and but also just making sure your very present when you're in in sessions those are two very specific examples will speaking of one story that I love to tell uh susan with jet jet ski ski who's who's the the ceo ceo of of has has five five children. children. Um Um and and she's she's one one of of the the sort sort of of heroes heroes in in my my book book and and I I feel feel like like we we should should be be shouting shouting her her story story from from the the rooftops rooftops and and she she talks talks about about how, how, having having children children she she felt felt like like made made her her more more productive productive because because she she wasn't wasn't gonna gonna waste waste time time on on things things that that we're we're moving moving slowly slowly or or working working out out so so awhile, awhile, since since I I don't don't have have time time for for that that I'm I'm gonna gonna focus focus on on the the things things that that ice ice I at at real real potential potential mean mean I I would would like like I'd I'd be be lying lying if if I I said said my life I'm perfectly balance, you know I sort of always feel like I'm going like this um and one of the things that is really help me Is talking to other moms and dads um as well about how they do it and everybody will have their own sort of way, whether you know how they use it. There village and and how they structure their care and you know when they say they can do a phone call or not, and I do think it's important to make sure you're valuing work at all times of day and so, like, even though I lead to pick up my kids I'm back online, I work with you know I work weekends, sometimes you know I'm I do feel like when I am working on my I am more productive and more sort of targeted um There there is no secret in getting through you know you know my career II, dui call every morning because I, like you know the time of my show change was like well, I'm not gonna miss breakfast and they were fine with the call great um. I wouldn't have been happy. You know missing them in the morning. What's it's like for me um and so you know I do think speaking up for yourself is important and finding your allies in the Organization who will short of understand and sympathize whatever it is, whether it's like In our plants or you, wanna go on a surf holiday in Costa Rica, like we all have our things um and I do generally think that there is no better time to sort of talk about and express you know what what you need to be fulfilled as long as you're doing your work right. Like as long as you're doing a good job. I think good work is really valued as I say, it's in front of the air like chief of of hr next question Over here, hi thanks for coming today, um so to me it seems seems like is overwhelmingly um urgent. Many companies, they're very concerned with their appearance and their quick to make it known how, how much they focus on diversity and inclusion. Um and you've clearly made it um the point that it's really still problem today uh do you fear do you believe that companies right now are more concerned with signaling that they're actually making a difference or do you think they're actually doing as much as they claim to be. I think plenty of companies aren't doing as much as they claim to be in our hearts. You concerned about appearances, but I also you know, on the other hand, if appearances Painting of the the structure of the workforce change because they're worried about how they look that's kind of okay to right. We need the numbers to materially shift and if the reason that they care is only because, like someone from the outside, is putting pressure on them to make their executive team look more diverse, that's kind of okay. You know amazon just rejected a shareholder proposal that they use the rooney rule when interviewing new directors and amazon has an all male I'll, be all White board, three women 10 10 people total so actually it's not even that bad compared to other tech company boards um and they Reflexively said nope we're just gonna continue doing the interviews. Our own way and employees like kind of revolted and three days later, amazon said okay we'll. Do it um and so, if they're bored start looking different they're gonna have more people on their board with different points of view and that will ultimately be better and so you know of course intentions. I hope intentions are good, that would that's even better but I think that it always moving us in generally the right now and I think that's uh really great question it's one of those questions you wish you could go and ask each other to senior leader of different come Nice, um, what I would say is there's aspects that right now, the industry there's, a tremendous light on this topic, so this is a great time for everyone to be more thoughtful and cautious about that. Progression. Um but I would say, as every every citizen professional individual, even within your company's, you actually have a voice. I mean the point of the amazon story, not to mention what happened uh in terms of susan follower and others. These are individual Employees that said, you know, come on this is wrong and we live now with the advancement of the social network and many other technologies that you can start sharing sake if this doesn't feel right because of values or because you understand you know where the line is. It's not. What we discussed earlier of it's an opportunity to voice what you're thinking. How you see what you see um maybe in terms of interactions and behaviors, that are inconsistent um or adjust patterns because at the end of the day, um but I think Most most senior leaders within the company actually want to see a very healthy company healthy culture, great values, great teams, great um uh you know, colleagues working and kind of sharing that shared purpose and you can't do that. If you're in a hostile environment, you can't do that. If you're kinda being fake about what you, what you say, external versus the way you operate internally so um. I would encourage everybody to use their wise yeah. I think what you said was a very interesting question in the think the time for a company to espouse a set of values and not really own them has passed Spy at end it used to be that it was pr Department communications people and then all like you know, make things look good in front of in front of that public. Uh. You know um audience out there and you know. I think we saw the great example of being you know the roseanne barr situation right where they literally had three hours to respond and have they taken longer. It would have looked more like the you know the cases uh that we saw going on at the White House that just continued on and on and team builders because it will respond fast enough so you know so at the end of the day, um it does rely on the ceo Having that sense of moral Justice that that sense sense of moral compass to make a snap decision and do the right thing because you can't afford um you can't afford to make the wrong decision and then let it. Let it fester in the social world um so I actually think that they actually need owned these values. They need to own that real desire to overcome unconscious bias. They can't just pay lip service or they will be found out and it will affect that company's reputation Other questions, one more and then we'll close. Thank you very much for your time. So I heard that a lot of women are not willing to take the one to they don't want to take an extended break after having a good uh. You think, companies are doing doing enough to audition to be doing more to uh address the needs of this women who want to take a break for La couple of years uh to look after the kids, but really want to come back and join the workforce. For that yeah well it's in technology, it you really see the cost of taking a break because the industry move so fast and so I've talk to so many women who tried to take that break and then they try to get back in and it's it's really hard and so I do think companies need to work harder to attract those women in fact, sometimes it can be a recruiting tool so you know, I interviewed the Co founders of event right julia and Kevin hartz has been wife team and they're dirty secret is they recruit women on maternity leave because they think well we're really great place for parents and we know that they're probably having this Part of life moment is this really the right place for me. It's the time to pounce um and actually diane, before we what I'm talking about he's just talking about how you off you, you actually make a conscious effort to find women mid career and you do some training for them as well. Right now actually, we started this a few years ago and we started in obviously you can you can find find these folks that have had careers and tack and suddenly you know they're linked in page is look awfully like and uh and so we went. We went after them and they're very aggressive way and created an internship program for them to come in and learn the new technologies black and so forth and, most of them we offer jobs to to the others got jobs elsewhere. You know, we didn't see how to join idea But um but it was uh. It was it was exciting to see how our senior leaders started fighting over them. You know, I was like no. I wanted that person um so it was. It was a great experiment worked out really well. I also think it's important to make sure you're you're getting your own data and so you know I've interviewed someone for the book very senior person at at a very big company who said you know when women left on maternity leave. It was 50 50 whether they come back and it be impossible for me to get that data, but, like the company has that data and so they know They know when, when, when people are leaving and if they see a trend like that they have a responsibility to address it well, I'm just responsibility to mentor right so the mentor stays in touch at least to 9 PM with the person who goes out on maternity leave on I'm gonna regular basis to see how they're doing and if they're gonna come back and when they're gonna come back and help them think about returning and what that would be like and that that's an important connection that needs to be forged. Why we have several questions from facebook live okay and so we might have time for one alright and re So trevor ass do you think we're we're doing enough about unconscious bias. Training and I don't question uh maybe I'll start that one um uh. I don't think so as I said, I would say, as an industry at large um, we can all do better uh the benefit that we have with the abm is we've focused. Our intentionally around the enterprise or the intersection of enterprise and society, so society and public and corporate service, so what that means is that were thoughtful about who comes to the table what's Mix of the experts right deep domain, experts, whether it's in the medical field in research, whether it's in legal fields, whether it's in financial field or in retail experiences, we actually think about the governance structure we also think about the data itself, like where was it source. What's the providence of it was a curated piece and then how do you give often it's not about whether or not one day to uh, whether or not they'd actually exist. What do you give higher authority to in a situation where you have a set of facts where you can apply Your judgement, one way or another and some of that overtime also requires training, because in certain situations you may have a number of factors while you go one way or another and so in our view, it's about augmenting the human capability so you really need two things. One people that do like people while they're programming uh, if you know you could have other consequences um and then you have to think through, like the makeup of not just diverse perspectives but um what you, what let's say a Council different perspectives would actually validate as not only the truth but the governments throughout that process so um absolutely first and foremost is Parents see around the data set of who owns it where is it stored. Do you have rights to it. Did you have rights in the drive meditate, a the second piece is the governance structure who were the people training at over time and the third is absolutely um transparency around how should you adopt it. How should you actually apply it and in terms of the transformation that's gonna cost to the workforce so uh first of all, I do not believe across the industry we're doing enough. This is a huge topic because these systems once we put them into place and you guys have probably seen a number of these by a number of vendors where they put you had pots out that are just kind of randomly Uh consuming what I would say is conversations that are in the public sphere and not even understanding things like sarcasm or humor in the wrong contacts and doing things that are just absolutely offensive. So these are these are the things that we have to be thoughtful about because you know what that's that's our responsibility for creating some of these technologies to think about those consequences and then put the right practices in place. I think empathy is such an under rated characteristic that is so important. I mean, for people who are building the future. We need people who care about the users has problems that Hey are trying to solve and so that's why it is so important to have people have a variety of backgrounds making these decisions and you know this is an industry that has never shied away from hard problems. We're talking about trying to get to mars and connecting the world and organizing the world's information self driving cars. If we can do all of that like we can hire more women pay them fairly and fund their ideas. I don't think it's a problem that's too hard for us to lots of great word and thank