Justice in Policing Act Town Hall with CBC Chairwoman Karen Bass

Is that you? Let's see we should be live soon. Okay. Alright, it looks like we're on hey everybody Derek Kilmer here from periodically Sunny Gig Harbor Washington tomorrow I will be on a flight to DC where my terrific colleague Congresswoman Karen Bass from California is Karen is the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus chairwoman. It's great to see you. thank you so much for joining us this evening. Absolutely my pleasure to be here and Karen on tonight we have a very big and important vote coming up at the end of this week on a bill. that's really led the way on and it's called the Justice and Policing Act. You know over the last several weeks. I've been participating in protests and seeing people all around our region standing up and really demanding change and changes with regard to policing practices changes with regard to systemic racism and changes. Regard to just wanting to see an end to innocent black Americans being killed in communities around our country and as Congress prepares to vote on this you know certainly I was proud to be an original cosponsor of this bill, but chairs maybe you could just start by telling folks about this bill. What are some of the core elements of the bill and and where do you see it really making a difference? Sure? Well, I am happy to do that. But before I do that, I'm gonna start by telling people about you. I know that everybody in your district knows what a leader that you are, but I wanna take the opportunity to make sure that the folks in your district know what a leader you are in the House of Representatives. Derek leads the way on many issues. Most importantly, he leads one of the largest most influential caucuses in the House, and that's the New Democrats and I have had the pleasure and honor a couple of times of working with Derek and being able to address the caucus and that's a. Important leadership role and I'm sure you probably read about it on the website, but I wanna take the opportunity to make sure that everybody in the district knows how valuable you are in Washington DC, in addition to your district so thank you for inviting me and let me just tell all of your constituents that we have a very historic vote to take on Thursday and I'm proud to say that the overwhelming majority of the Democrats I mean 230. 230 - Five Derek have our original cosponsors of the bill and the bill are divided into a few sections. The first part of the bill really looks at accountability. The world Watch the slow torturous murder of George Floyd, The world watched that police officer look at the camera dead in the eye with his hand in his pocket. He was acting with complete impunity because he didn't think anything was gonna happen to him well, He was arrested and charged, but that's rare and the reason it's rare is because police officers basically have a type of immunity that doesn't really or that makes it extremely difficult to sue them. In addition to that, it's very difficult to prosecute an officer you're used to it because you've seen this any number of times that the officer will say well, I was in fear of my life and that's why I killed the person so our Bill. Changes both of those it lowers the threshold for prosecution and it also allows the public to sue a police officer. Another section of the bill really assist police departments uplift the profession by having a National certification. Did you realize that police officers have no National standards? so you go get your hair done and your beautician or your barber has to be certified, but your police officer that has the ability to arrest. And take your life does not there's certain practices that we believe should never happen again. There should never be another George Floyd so choke holds are banned. There should never be another Brianna Taylor. She was shot in her sleep because of a no knock warrant. Tamir Rice would have turned 18 this month 12 year-old, who was killed and how dangerous can a 12 year-old be, but the officer jumped out of his car he shot and killed him. He had been fired from another police Department, but he lied on his application. Now he was fired because the police Department believed he was unstable and had a propensity for violence so banning chokeholds banning no knock warrant for drug arrests and also requiring a database of problem. Officers is also in the bill, a part of the bill that I'm particularly a favorable and I think addresses some of the issues specific to Washington and frankly Los Angeles, too, which is where I'm from is the idea of giving grants to community-based. So that people can begin to re envision public safety and the way I describe this is over the years beginning about 30 - five years ago, we began on a federal level to divest from cities divest from communities and we cut resources for mental health for housing for education. you just go down the list Well, community problems developed when communities don't have that type of safety net and what we have all done as a country is On police and I'm sure all of you have encountered police officers who will tell you in a minute. I wanna be a police officer. It's not fair to me to be a social worker to be a marital counselor. All of that should be handled by social services so the the bill provides grants to communities to re envisioning public safety. That's a snapshot of the bill and maybe if if you want to Derek, maybe we can engage in a conversation. Well, I really appreciate that the overview that you've given folks and I will say even as we've done. with our constituents including folks who work in law enforcement, I would say the vast majority of these are things that people say gosh, that really makes a lot of sense and in some instances, you know I know as we've talked to some of our law enforcement, you know, they said. We don't we don't allow choke holds in our Department or but to your point the lack of National standards. I think has led to some of these challenges. I do wanna ask only because it's in the news today you know On we as as members of the House, just got a letter from A hundred and 30 -, eight civil rights organizations in opposition to the to the Senate bill. I know that there's some very significant differences between the approach in the Senate and the approach that we'll be voting on the House. Do you wanna speak to just a couple of those absolutely significant differences? Absolutely Well. First of all. Let me tell you there's two bills in the Senate so the Senate Democrats and the House Democrats. we drafted our bills together, so there's that Bill Senate We're in the majority right now, hopefully in about a hundred and 35 more days That'll change, but anyway, we're in the minority and so over in the Senate, Senator Tim Scott has introduced a bill now. The good news is his bill really kind of mimics Sars, so he addresses choke holds he addresses the database, but unfortunately, he doesn't put any teeth in his bill so for choke holds he banns them unless the officers in fear of his life now just a few minutes. Said the officers always say there in fear of their life so to me what he did is kind of window dressing and I think all of those people that are out in the Street 50 States in the Union countries around the world. I don't think this is the moment for window dressing. This is the moment for transformative change. So that's some of the differences We feel that there's parts of this bill that mimics ours, but it does not have any teeth and so what is going to happen. The rules are different in the House and the Senate in the Senate. The minority, which are the Democrats have more power than the Republicans, who are the minority in the House. Maybe they don't have any power. We vote things out of majority in the Senate. You need Super majority to even have a vote and so what will happen tomorrow is that the Senate Democrats will oppose the Senate Republican bill. that means their bill won't even be eligible for debate now. Things happen and I know it sounds crazy and it feeds into you guys. never do anything you're always polarizing and all of that. but what tends to happen when you reach an impasse like that's when you can begin discussions and negotiations. However, we need as much public support and pressure for a substantive change for transformative change that we hope will bring the Republicans to the negotiating table, so we got in some questions already and I know we I only have you for about 12 more minutes. so I'll be quick with the questions that so Barbara from. Wrote in about something you touched on and that is there's a whole bunch of professions that require a licensed nurses and paramedics and EMTs and hairstylist have to meet certain requirements right and then she wrote that there's not a not a National standard. so I know this bill creates both you know a law enforcement development and training programs for best practices that requires the creation of law enforcement accreditation Standard recommendations that were based on President Obama's. Force on 20 first century policing, but maybe talk a little bit more about that accreditation and licensing and how that can improve police practices. Yes, and you know that's a great part of the bill that a lot of police officers support. So, for example, I met with the Fraternal Order of Police. I don't know if they're in your area, but there are a Union. Our Union in La is called something different, but they were excited about that and what they said is that look there are 18000 police departments in the. They as an Organization as a Union have been fighting for accreditation standards for a long time, but they have to fight Department by Department so they were happy to see that we're proposing this in the bill because we can get their work done for them. So I look at it this way you're a professional. you want your profession to be a highly regarded you don't wanna work alongside of corrupt officers or violent people. and so this is something. Uplifts the profession that police chief supported as well as the Fraternal Order of Police. Yeah, and that's certainly consistent with what I've heard from law enforcement in our area. I'm Bann in Tacoma touched on something that you did you did as well. You know the the need for things like mental health professionals and social workers and educators. you know having some additional resources so that we're not having that expectation of law enforcement and Ben. I appreciate the question you know, I think you know, obviously we need to. Public safety so that we spend more on preventing injustice and preventing crime so that hopefully we can spend less on policing and prosecuting it because we prevent it in the first place. It is a real problem that in the district I represent the largest provider of mental health services in every County I represent is the County jail right now. I haven't talked to anybody who thinks that's a good way to deal with mental health challenges and so that's you know I obviously. you know the bill that we're voting on this week is a piece of that. Maybe Karen could could you could you speak about some of the other work that the Congressional Black caucuses and the caucuses are doing to focus on some of the other inequities that we're seeing. so, for example, you know I'm a sponsor of the Health Equity Accountability Act that tries to address some of the inequities in the health care space, but you wanna highlight a couple of the other priorities for the caucus Sure but before. Let's talk about mental health for a minute in Los Angeles. we have a jail that's called the twin Towers and we say it's the most expensive mental health institution in the country, but let's just take a minute and ask how we got here everything so many things are so well intended. you know I mean, for example, I think it was in the eighties. Maybe it was the early eighties When you know we had this mental institutions and so it was decided well. that's a horrible way to deal with people. Mental illness We need to get rid of the institutions and we need to build community based program. so that isn't that does that sound wonderful. So what we did was. we shut down the institutions and never built a community based institutions and so over time what we have done as a country is we have invested in policing and not invested in social services and people, and so consequently that caused so much more money. Then if you took care of the person and built those you know community-based institutions, but what Derek is referring to we call the the try caucus plus two and that is the Hispanic Caucus, the Asian Pacific Islander caucus and then we are very fortunate this time. we have two Native American women for the first time in US history and so we meet together we look at each other's communities because we basically are all dealing with. Issues and so prior to and let me say that policing applies to all of those communities as well, we had a shooting in Los Angeles, the other day of a young Latino man and so what we were focused on before George George Floyd's murder was and the extreme disproportionate death rate in of of covet of the virus and so we were fighting for Cond resources in areas in. Areas where you have a cluster of Co and an extreme disproportionate rate, why wouldn't you have an intervention in that specific area? If it's one block? why wouldn't you address the whole block as opposed to the whole town and so we were fighting for the resources and the Heroes Act, which we passed a while ago and it's sitting over there in the Senate and so we need public pressure for that as well. and so we think there needs to be specific intervention. There's issues like that that we work on together, but it was like we didn't. We weren't even able to get there with that and and unfortunately this whole movement kicked off well. I'm excited about this movement of course the peaceful side of it and I am hoping that the protests continue until we are able to get a proper Bill pass and so those are examples of some of the issues that we work on together, Oh, when a Derek was referring to the help equi. Now, you've heard whenever they talk about Kogan, they talk about the underlying health issues in the African-American community. Well, those underlying health conditions exist in the Latino community, the Asian community and the Native American community as well. My problem, though, is that people immediately wanna talk about underlying health conditions and it's like when the House is on fire, you send the fire Department. You don't send the structural engineer to assess the foundation. You put the fire out first. so, of course we wanna deal with the underlying health issues but right now. We have to deal with the emergency of now we can walk and chew gum at the same time. So while we were dealing with that, we introduced a bill that does address the underlying health conditions and that's an area where we've divested from two. we had an office of Minority health, but under the Trump administration, they zeroed out the funding. So that's an example of some issues that we work on together terrific. I think that's really helpful. you talked about the importance of the protest continuing in. Piggybacks on a good question, we got from faith in Port Angeles where I was born right-I feel sadness and anger in the wake of the killings of black people in the United States at the hands of police now and throughout history she writes Washington State also needs broad reform she said we need to acknowledge that police brutality happens and pointed to the excessive use of force against against peaceful protesters and ask. please use your platform to defend the lives and bodies of people of color. I'll just say. Faith for your comment and certainly agree about the need for reform. That's part of why I'm so grateful for chairwoman bass leadership. we're we there's also a resolution that's focused specifically just click condemning a police brutality and racial profiling and urging a legislative action to save lives, which is a priority as well, just making sure that Congress speaks clearly that we wanna make sure that those who are. Protecting public safety or or doing that, I'm not doing things that endanger absolutely and you know I would and I've I've said this on a lot of these calls. check out your own Police Department because of phenomenon that happens all over the United States. if you live in an area and there's a population of folks of color, trust me, you will see a disproportionate arrest rate and a disproportionate incarceration right, and I think that it's something that everybody can look. In every community around the country, you can address these issues on a local level. you can ask the police chief you can ask the city Council. You know, tell us tell us the data show us the data who is in jail who's in those the jails that you described with mental illness. You know what is the arrest record? and so I think that this is something that is not particular to one community. This is in every community in the country. I know I lose you in two minutes and I'm sorry to end with what may be one of the tougher questions, but we got a question from Joseph and Hokie about qualified. Which I know is one of the issues that's gotten the most attention. he just said, you know, obviously we saw the horrible act that occurred in Minneapolis and I wanting to ensure that there's a way to hold hold folks accountable when they you know, obviously, in that instance, commit murder can you just speak briefly about you know for you know, I admit I didn't know a whole lot about qualified immunity before these discussions started. So can you give people a brief? Sure, you know it is it is without question. I would say the most controversial part of the bill and that's for a few reasons because of course, officers don't wanna be sued but neither the cities and so in some cities like a big city like Los Angeles, which is probably sued every day. That's one thing. a small town is concerned that you know we have a population of 10000 or 5000. If you sue our city, you could actually shut the city down so that is an issue. Have to address now you know you can't be a small town and not be insured as well. And of course, it's the insurance company, but that's a valid concern and that's something that we have to work out, but it is one of the most important things in the bill as long as you can't prosecute an officer or sue an officer. what's to stop the next officer from looking dead in in the camera he's slowly kills someone it's the impunity that we have to deal with. Just as we wrap up just thank you again for your extraordinary leadership and for your partnership, I think it's just a vitally important conversation that Congress is having when we say black lives matter that needs to mean something that it needs to mean that we're taking action to make sure that that black lives actually matter and the reforms that you're taking the lead on I think make a real difference. so thank you for that and thanks for taking a bit of time with my constituents, you're welcome. Recommendation and most people have Netflix watch the documentary 13. That's the number 13 for the thirteenth Amendment. It will put everything we've talked about in a historical perspective. Thank you and I look forward to seeing you in a couple of days. I'll see you soon. Karen Thanks again. Bye. Bye. Bye everybody. Thanks for.