Add a comment

 

 
  • Charles Main · Phoenix, Arizona
    I love how APS sounds like such the victim. I also am impressed how the "other" customers have to make up where solar takes from APS's bottom line. Always pass the loss to the customers instead of trying to make their system better!
       
    • Mark White · Top Commenter
      I'm honestly amazed that the Corporation Commission listened to consumers and mostly ignored buffoons like Russell Pearce and the liars at APS. APS wants to charge you $50 - 100 per month for transporting electricity generated at your house to your neighbor's house. APS realizes that solar will reduce their needed capital investments and reduced capital investments will result in lower profits as regulators are required to set rates to give APS a return on their capital investments. The nonsense about the use of the grid is just that, nonsense.
      • Nicholas Schumacher · Top Commenter · Mesa, Arizona
        Just means in the end that those without solar power will wind up paying for those who have solar panels. Wonderful subsidy for the rich.
      • Andy Clemans
        Why is solar for the rich? I should show you some of the solar installs I've done in South Tucson. Surely you would not consider those folks rich. They may be homeowners, but they are certainly not rich. I think that is the biggest fallacy regarding the residential solar industry is that you need to be affluent to have panels installed. If you own a home, we can install panels on your roof and save you money. It's that simple.
      • Michelle Ellashek · Top Commenter · Barefoot Books Ambassador at Barefoot Books Ambassador - Phoenix
        Nicholas Schumacher I assure you I am far from rich.
       
    • Steve Cohan · Top Commenter · Phoenix, Arizona
      As we all know, APS has lots of fixed costs, not to mention sky boxes and advertising at our major sports venues. Hey how about APS tv advertising. What? It turns out that they are now in the beginning stages of going the way of the horse and buggy. In the not too distant future, advances in solar will make each home singularly energy independent. At that point, APS can lock the doors and turn out THEIR lights.
      • Matthew Field · Top Commenter
        Why does APS and SRP have to advertise anyway? It's not like I have a choice on where I get my power from.
       
    • Matt Mendenhall · Top Commenter · Works at Phoenix Union High School District
      Only in Arizona. The sunshine capital. Solar should be an obvious choice. But the aging greedy right wing arses that this state's feeble citizens vote to lead them make sure that Arizona's greatest natural resource comes off as evil subsidized socialism. What a shame. You go, Mississippi of the Southwest!
      • Julio Raygoza
        It's only a matter of time till the residents realize how good it would be for us to switch. Hard to beat logic.
       
    • Todd Ingalls · Top Commenter · Tempe, Arizona
      So people with solar panels can send there excess power back to the grid and get credit for it. How does this result in non-solar costumers 'subsidizing' solar customers. I don't even understand how this claim can be made with a straight face. BTW, I would not be surprised if charges of corruption leveled against some on the Commission over this vote.
      • Eric Johnson · Top Commenter · Realtor at Realty One Group
        The story mentions those with solar panels receiving $170 Million in utility credits that cam from us non-solar APS users. Don't forget they also receive tax credits that came from the rest of us.

        So, solar homes & businesses have received large subsidizes from the rest of us.
      • Michelle Ellashek · Top Commenter · Barefoot Books Ambassador at Barefoot Books Ambassador - Phoenix
        Eric Johnson What subsidies are the utilities getting? How about big oil? I already pay fees every month for my electricity- that is whether I use the power or not.
      • Andy Clemans
        Every time you fill up your gas tank, you receive a subsidy. The gallon of milk you bought, subsidized. The cell phone you just bought, subsidized. The New Homebuyer tax credit from a few years ago so your industry so desperately need, a subsidy. Agree or disagree, we live in an economy based on subsidies.
       
    • Kathy Dix Biallas · Phoenix, Arizona
      Excuse me; we are not rich. We lease solar for slightly less than our original APS bill. We were only able to do this because there was no down payment or purchase of the panels. We still pay APS a bill every month, which is mainly all those fees that the utility says we're pushing onto non-solar customers. That is a LIE. And in winter, our solar bill will be double or triple your APS bill because we pay the solar company the same amount each month.
      • Reinier De Ruiter
        I think the increase is not for existing customers. But still , it is a total crock. Why would you install solar to pay 5 to 10 less a month ?? That only helps the solar companies (sale) and aps/srp (getting their mandated percentage of renewable energy online). ??????
      • Bill Gillette · Top Commenter · Prosser Career Academy
        Reinier De Ruiter Solar panels are a long term investment They don't start paying for themselves for at least ten years
      • Michelle Ellashek · Top Commenter · Barefoot Books Ambassador at Barefoot Books Ambassador - Phoenix
        Bill Gillette My system is on track for a return in 8 years. This was a much better investment then my 401k.
       
    • Tom Kinney · Top Commenter · Tucson, Arizona
      If it costs the non-solar customer $1.40 per month for power grid expenses why should the solar customers pay any more than that? This meeting sounded like the same old GOP taking care of their benefactors.
      • Ryan Randazzo · Top Commenter · Business Reporter at The Arizona Republic
        You ask a good question. The reason is because there are so few solar customers. APS says they get about $18 million a year in free grid use. When you spread the $18M over 1 million nonsolar customers, it's $1.40 a month. When you make the 18,000 solar customers pay it all themselves, its more like an $80 a month charge. Either way, it's $18 million a year, and the question the regulators tried to answer was, who should pay it. They decided the solar customers should start paying some of it now.
      • Howard Johnson · Top Commenter
        Ryan Randazzo Excuse me, The "grid" has already been paid for and appreciated out. It is an old expense. No "new" grid needs to be built, and APS knows that. Everyone pays a line fee to be connected. That money is used to maintain the present grid. It is not "free". I respectfully disagree with your statement.
      • David Bergeron · Top Commenter
        Ryan Randazzo Can you now see how ridiculous these pro-solar loons are? Please help fight this immoral solar industry lobby by educating the general public. The state and even these mislead folks will be much better off if we can run these solar bandits out of business.
       
    • Michael Kidd · Top Commenter · Software Developer at Private company
      APS will be raising their rates in the very near future to offset the cost of ads, and the lack of a $50-$100 fee that they wanted. Screw you, APS.
         
      • William Henneberg · Top Commenter · Wagoner, Arizona
        Can we trust the APS to keep their word on this? They have already reneged on other commitments to rooftop solar owners.
        • Eric Black · Top Commenter
          Yep, even states in the article that APS is reserving the right to charge more at a later time. So they're still fighting to get their profits higher at the expense of clean energy
          That is the bottom line.
         
      • Donald M. Appel · Top Commenter · Michigan State University
        So let me get this strait, a single mother working at Wal-Mart for $9.00 per hour and trying to feed her kids should pay more for her electricity so that rich liberals can feel good about having solar on their house. Put this in the category of things that make you go Hum!
         
      • Hank Chinaski Jr. · Phoenix, Arizona
        This decision by the ACC was bought and paid for months ago. Just look at how Pierce voted against the settlement because it wasn't high enough! Greedy APS and greedy politicians, a match made in heaven.
           
        • Reinier De Ruiter
          Sounds like wealth redistribution to me. What a crock. The solar users are saving the utilities money by not needing upgrades to power lines because they generate their own power ! This is such a rip off. The corp. comm. calls themselves republicans, this is just another tax on the wealthy to pay for the poor. bull
             
          • Ed Casper · Top Commenter · DePaul University
            Sounds like the Corporation Commission split the difference.
             
          • David Bergeron · Top Commenter
            Solar is still expensive power (Google DOE Levelized Cost of Energy). A larger increase would have been fair and just to the 99%. It's not fair to make non-solar users subsidize the energy use of those that put solar on their homes. We all need to pay for the goods and services we buy, not force our neighbors to pay for them.

            Even if a house uses no net energy, it costs the utilities about $90/month to be ready with wires, generators, transformers, administrative services, service vehicles, staff, etc to provide these homes with power when they need it. But as of now, solar users are not paying this cost, so these fixed costs are shifted to other home owners. This is immoral.

            Today the cost is small because only a small percent of folks use solar, but this cost will become a very large as more people use solar and don't... pay the real cost of connecting to the electric grid.

            Ryan, stating that the average person saves $5-$10 with with solar and this $5 fee erases half their savings is misleading, no? How did they come up with the figure $5-$10/month? Now can the average solar installation be that small?

            What is going on in Arizona is unfair and immoral, but it clearly demonstrates the principle of "Concentrated Benefit and Diffuse Cost". Even though it is wrong to make the 99% of ratepayer subsidize the few (typically wealthier) solar users, the cost is spread over such a large group that there are few in that group willing to take the time to complain about a $3-$4/mo solar charge, yet those receiving the 'concentrated benefit' are willing to march and carry signs.

            Until more of the public becomes aware of how immoral these subsidies to solar are and how ineffective this technology is to addressing environmental issues, the solar industry will continue to plunder the 99% of Arizonans who choose to spend their money on food, housing, transportation and education rather than on expensive solar energy.

            As a student of Solar energy at Rice University and the CEO of an Arizona solar energy company, I can tell you solar energy is decades away from being economically viable and is a feeble technology to address environmental issues.

            I can also tell you that most of the comments on this article are from people who are well meaning, but uninformed or members of the "Concentrated Benefit" group.
            See More
               
            • Deborah Brouhard · Top Commenter
              Don't forget for one moment that these commissioners were the same one's receiving campaign contributions from the utility companies and you expected any different outcome? Oh, so the GOP are so worried that that nonsolar folks are subsidizing the solar industry. Really, when we subsidize the oil industry, farmers, football stadium owners, etc. Didn't Gilbert city council vote to subsidize the new furniture store on Power with their minimum wage jobs? Didn't Glendale vote to subsidize all those stupid sports stadium deals, but now you're worried this one subsidy? Just another example of the rich companies buying the commissioners and the commissioners doing EXACTLY what they were paid to do. Approve all utility company rate hike requestz. In a place like AZ, the only problem is the utility companies CAN"T figure out HOW to charge people for the sun, but once they do, we'll hear all about the great advantage solar panels will have BECAUSE THEN THEY WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE MONEY OF IT, BUT NOT BEFORE.
               
            • Tablet Belt
              The article states that "solar saves customers an average of $5 to $10 a month..." I thought putting panels on your house saved a lot more money then that? Does anyone know if that is true, such a small savings?
              • Till Anne
                What the article said is that new APS solar customers will be charged $5 a month and that they must sign an understanding that the amount may increase. The article indicates that "Solar customers can avoid most of their utility bill by generating their own electricity and getting credit on their bills for the excess power they send to the grid under a system known as net metering" ... the part about avoiding most of the utility bill is simply not true. Even without the fees, it is hardly worth purchasing solar from a financial standpoint, but it is worth helping the environment.

                I have a 5 KW system and save about $850 a year; we are with SRP. It cost me about $7000 to install (after all the rebates) plus I have to pay $100 to clean the panels periodically (since I'm unable to get up on my roof to do it myself). If I need ...roofing work, I will have to pay someone to move the panels and put them back. Even during the winter, my bill is still more than $70 even though I have also added a solar water heater, insulated my house, installed a low energy pool pump, purchased all new energy efficient appliances, and installed a new energy efficient 2 stage A/C. My bills are lower, but the return on investment will take a long time. I live in a older modest home and struggled to make these improvements (loans); but I've lived here 18 years and plan to live her a while longer so needed to do something.

                If it really cost APS $50 to $100 a month to bring power from solar customers back to the grid ... then it is costing more than what is saved by the customer.
                See More
              • Ryan Randazzo · Top Commenter · Business Reporter at The Arizona Republic
                People who lease panels save a lot on their utility bill, but they also get a lease payment. When you add them up, they save $5 or $10 a month, according to the solar lease companies. If you buy your solar array, you might save $100 or more a month, but at that rate, it will take about 8 years to pay off the out-of-pocket costs.
              • Michelle Ellashek · Top Commenter · Barefoot Books Ambassador at Barefoot Books Ambassador - Phoenix
                I save significantly more than $5 a month. Probably more than a hundred a month during the summer. During the winter I often pay only the delivery fees. I am on track for an 8 year return. I will also add that I stay home and work, and we keep the house pretty frosty all summer. We generate more than we use most of the year. I made a choice to take money from my 401k to fund it, and it has paid off better than any fund I could own.
               
            • Kyle Schoen · Top Commenter · United States Navy
              I'd say its about time to sue aps for the cost of solar equipment that we paid for with OUR money, not theirs!