Hey everybody. Hello Debbie Paris My mother-in-law Hello Katy Paris My daughter-in-law cheers to you. I think it's a pretty special thing to get to be. This is my first time doing this actually being in the same place with someone Debbie's is one of three guests We have with us tonight and please you know we are here enjoying our wine of course together. you know we actually have a whole bottle for tonight because it's just that we decided it was just that kind of topic Of wine in the world. cuz this is the back to school Blues Town Hall if you're like me and all the women in Red, White and Blues Facebook group called Decant join it if you are vibing with us tonight the only thing you're talking about with your friends with your spouse and your family is what are the schools going to do? Are we going to send our kids to school if that's even an option or are we going to keep them home if that's even an option and The reality is the mood and our Facebook group with everyone, I know basically is well. Here's a few words I heard in the last few days in terms of how people are feeling overwhelmed doesn't. I'm sorry overwhelmed isn't understatement worried sick wavering confused just crazy levels of anxiety So we hear that okay so again, tell us what you're sipping. We're glad you're here. Let us know where where you're viewing from to. We always love to learn that. So now that I've set the mood I wanna introduce our guests with us tonight we have friends and experts. I'm so glad to have in my life and to share with all of you here tonight. so sitting here with me is Deborah Paris, who is a child psychoanalyst here in Sugar Heights you've you've been playing this role in our community for 40 years. 45. I might be older than 45. No you don't and the and so I'm really thank you for being here looking forward to your expertise for anxious parents. we also are so lucky to have with us tonight stay for State Representative Phil Robinson, who. hey. so thanks for being here So Phil is actually chair of the Education Committee in the Ohio State Legislature. And so you know he's he's he's he's all over it when it comes to what's going on in the schools and so I'm so grateful that you can join us tonight. Phil represents your district it includes stolen and Brecksville Sugar falls and other suburban communities East of Cleveland. and then finally we also have here tonight. Melissa Cropper, who's President of the Ohio Federation of Teachers and it's just. I so admire in the leadership of Ohio, just a real champion of women and she's Melissa. Thank you for cheering me along the way and with Red White and blue here in Ohio and for your leadership in education in our state and really looking forward to hearing from you cuz you're talking to those teachers out there every day Okay. so let's get started first of all, let's just be real straight There are no good options. so if you guys you know are tuning in tonight for Magic answers of what to do of you know what the experts say we don't got them because they're there are no good options but hopefully you can listen tonight and feel understood and walk away with some practical advice for navigating what is a really? For all of us, I mean we all want our kids to be in school like normal school, You know, just like we want the economy to open just like we want everything to get back to normal but this is the reality we're in and the question is really how can we do this safely so that it lasts so with that my first question for all of you really tonight is that I know for me and so many of the women in our network what they what makes us feel better is actually in these moments of uncertainty is is getting input from. And that's why you're all here. but experts have feelings too so I just wanted to start by asking you all what is your gut feeling about all of this right now? What are the conversations you're having with spouses and children who maybe your children who may have children that are school-age. That's me, but you have. I love to others too. if you talk for me And you know what's keeping you what's keeping you up at night? So do you wanna start sure thank you for having me here tonight for my wife and I this is probably a topic we talk about two to three times a day or not every day of the week. are we gonna send them back to school? What do we do and I'll be pretty candid? We don't know we go back and forth and I thought it was just us until you start to talk to others who are calling in my phones are ringing off the hook should be sending them back to school. What do we do and then the polls came out. Three to one people are saying they don't wanna see their children to school so people are really anxious right now and that was across all political spectrums from Democrats, Republicans and Independents people don't feel safe in their children to school and so the things we look at are the color code system in Cuyahoga County and you know we're really nervous cuz it's at a level three for those who don't know level three is you're you're getting to a point where the spike is pretty high. We're pretty close to level four if that happens the Collier County. It means don't leave your home unless you have to so we're asking ourselves how we can put our daughter in school, who's six in first grade if we. It was safe I'm also thinking about teachers. I have a lot of friends who are teachers who are saying we're being put on the front line, but we're not being asked what we think we I'm worried about my wife who no matter how much men say they're trying to help out and we try to try my best. There's a there's an unseen impact that happens to women in a home mothers. the daughters who have the shoulder things you know, keeping it real. I just even a real. and and so we're looking at all the data we're we're asking questions but right now we don't know but what I do know is what people are looking for is some. Clear leadership and clarity right now to try to at least temper some of the the the expectations and what to do and I don't think that's happening right now but I'm I'm a father and and I have two children and I and I'm just like they are Yeah. Thanks Philip so Melissa I mentioned the teachers you are talking to educators every day. What's the vibe out there? how you doing with all of it too? Well, I'll start with. Left off in terms of the lack of leadership, I think that's been what was most has been the most difficult for us so far is because. you know we're trying to make this back to back to school plans and for a long time and a week or so ago we were we're not getting guidance from the state level or it wasn't being released. We actually had to help work on state guidance, but it was just not released for so long and the essence of that our school started working ahead and. Plan Your teachers are very concerned that there there's nothing or teachers want more than to return to a normal school schedule. I mean we wholeheartedly believe that face-to-face contact with our students is by far the best way to educate students. You know our teachers went into this profession because they love that interaction with students and they want to be there with them. But at the same time we have to put an equal priority on health and safety and you know I've I've often heard our teachers during these past few months referred to as a miracle workers. and I've been. Replying with you know, I agree, I think a lot of our teachers work some miracles during the situation, but the one thing that we can't do is bring someone back to life if they die due to it. So we're putting a high priority on our health and safety and quite honestly, we got a lot of teachers who fall in the high risk categories and they're very concerned that if they go back into a school setting Where is the safety measures are in place that they are you know, putting their lives at risk and and quite honestly, it's not just putting their lives at risk. For this, you know tough to suffer. Miserably during that process so we're just encouraging our leaders to make sure that our teachers to make sure they are involved in these conversations at a local level, insert their voices into what's happening at the local level. Don't wait to be asked but really insert themselves and I would say the same to parents and community members also make sure that the leaders of the school know what your preference is know what you want know what your concerns are because it's gonna take all. Working together to figure out the best way to move through this situation. Thanks Melissa okay. I'm love. Yeah you're up and and you always help me with the feeling stuff and there's a lot of fields. so tell us how tell us how you're doing and with the feeling Management Department well what I was struck when I'm stuck by is as parents and as the adults in the room, our job is to help children make sense of things feel safe and feel clear and the problem is. Is doing that for us as the adults, but we are experiencing. a lot of uncertainty and and worry and the question is then how do you help your children? It's a sort of filter down and if parents are supposed to be the filter and the force supposed to be the filter for the younger generation, How do we do that? when we're thinking? what how when? but I you know? I feel like it's always good to see it through line and once through line, which is not good, is that we don't know and we can't predict and so one. Can predict is that this is going to keep changing so that helps us as parents to think well? Okay. I got it for now that's gonna work for three days opposed to three months and it's sort of managing our own expectations, which makes us less wrong managing things with their children and then just one of the thing and then we can get into the weeds on it with children thrive with is relationship and I was thinking Melissa you were describing the teachers and you know what. You to work with children is the incredible warmth and importance of the relationship so my thought is we don't know online in school. split whatever the through line is the relationship that somehow getting a relationship with a singular teacher in some format that follows through is what will help children, particularly the younger ones, but all the way through and that is something we can. Work on that is something I feel we can we can do both as parents and the the sort of policy side so that's sort of where I am with all this right. I mean the idea of kind of getting a grip on the next three days like that's actually okay. Maybe that's manageable. maybe especially I love my sister in law of the other day. I mean, are there really days of the week anymore? isn't it just yesterday today and tomorrow it all times so if we can just get a grip on yesterday today and tomorrow, we'll just keep doing you know. Today and tomorrow again and again and again one step at a time. that's that's what I'm taking away from that anyway. Can I add one more? Oh go ahead and get to because that's what he trying to tell people to keep these questions about well. What's gonna look like What's school gonna look like the reality is whether school starts on time or not. It's not going to look the same a few weeks in as we start and I keep telling you all, it's expect the roller coaster expect that we might be in for a few weeks and then we might be out for a little bit and then come back in and we might be doing about learning for a while. we might be doing this for a while. it's. A very different year, so I think you're right in managing expectations and just you know having you know just knowing in the back of your head that better prepare for child care. I know I there's gonna be remote learning coming at some point in time and let's just expect that to happen. and it did. I didn't want to interrupt you I think that that the idea of preparation and being prepared for not knowing is important, but I also think you wanna prepare ourselves and. For how it feels. and the hard thing is, this doesn't feel good and we want them to have pleasure in learning and we want them to feel safe, all of which is a goal. but Katie let me say this a million times you get more positive feelings when you are able to articulate the negative feelings, Okay. Alright, this is something that's really important. I wanna take on there are all these memes on the Internet right now that say things you know, basically the point of them is like, okay parents. What happens no matter what the school decides it is on you. It is on us. We have to act like everything is great Like it's rainbows and unicorns. We are here to pump up the kids you know and I see that stuff and I'm like are you kidding me. You know I like it so but does that mean being a bad mom like not up to the task or is that am I am I in touch with the feelings? Well? What am I gonna say I haven't gotten into this one. I need more of this. you know I think the pumping up the feelings is wanting children to feel okay about it. That you know the the problem that that is not the way you help children feel okay about it. Children feel okay when they can talk about what's hard and when they can be heard about what's hard and be helped and how to address it rather than just it's gonna be an adventure and exciting and fun than the message and that is just pretend or just do what you're supposed to do and I think it's the same for the parents you know. you know you go online. You can do these activities You can learn how to home school. 30 minutes you know you can do it. I mean you know what parent doesn't you know for any help in hand and and so to recognize how hard this is on the teachers and the lawmakers on the administrators and the children on spouses on this is hard. This is unprecedented. This is unknown territory and when you listen to children, it's interesting mainly what they are missing is being with other kids that is. Heartache for them and it's really important to not say Oh, you're gonna see your friends sooner you can do FaceTime all of which is true, maybe true, but it if they feel better when they can cry about it or be upset about it. then you can problem solve then you can do the aching steps but to do the action steps without the feeling it gives gives you no balance whatsoever. I agree with you Duffy and children know you're not being honest and then. Is not resilient so to say I don't know when you're gonna go back, but here's what we're gonna do or we got a little here, Grandma and grandpa and us and you know the other grandma. we're we're gonna be you know a little group here for a while. it's a little bit easier to get through being honest about that. I agree. Yeah. So Melissa I think that teachers have really not been centered enough in these conversations and the reality is we ask so much of our teachers under normal conditions to play such a vast role in the lives of our children and I think you you're you're saying how it's important for us as parents to be vocal with our schools about what we need, but a lot of what I'm hearing from Moms is a lot of worry and concern about these teachers, you know and like who's sticking up for them and do you have any advice on how we can be the most helpful support and advocates for the teachers who are our friends and who we recognize as people who play such important roles in our children's lives I. Appreciate that you know, I think it is it is. being supportive of what of what is happening. So you're like, for example, what if it's if a school district decides that children are supposed to wear a mask to school. you know being supportive of that decision and understanding that yes, it might be an inconvenience but the inconvenience is there to make sure that our teachers don't get sick. you know if when teachers are assigned, you're wearing a remote learning situation Understanding that is it's it's it's difficult to be thrown in the different situations from day to day in the day and instead of maybe being critical that things are going the way you might not you might not necessarily on the go understanding that the teachers are really struggling to try to adjust all these different situations also and then again advocating you know advocating that the reality of all this situation really is that if we want our schools to be safe and we wanna have. Amount of staffing to make sure make sure the schools are safe and to make sure that we have enough teachers to safely educate everyone it takes money so being those advocates on our behalf of the state Legislature and with the federal government to say that this is a priority we want our students back to school, but we also want our students in our in our teachers to be safe and so please provide them with the funding to make that happen so that we can buy all the safety and we all all the PPE. Higher custodial staff to keep the schools clean we could do the social distancing we can buy the computers for when we need to go to remote learning because you know that we know that a lot of our students don't have access to this kind of things so really be an advocates on our behalf in those areas will be a huge help. Thank you. Melissa Okay. So I'm glad I have got to bring that over to you because when it comes to being in the situation, I mean it seems like oh man what if we lived in a world where we actually have been prioritizing education and having you know our school facilities you know. How they should be and supported in the ways that our teachers supported in the way they should be maybe we'd be in a better position. I don't know like a debit right now but I'm so curious for your perspective on that cuz you are so focused on these issues day today. Yeah, you know down in the state House before Kobe happen, we kept saying you need to invest more in public schools and schools in general and teaching profession development. There could be a day where it's gonna we're gonna you know need to make sure that happens and of course that's where we are right now and I was really de. To see the cuts and I've talked about that that the governor made anything there is to not cut in the state budget as schools and education. this is why we fought so hard to make sure we put at least a little bit more money back in after the governor the office some of the cuts, but it has been a race to the bottom of prioritizing education. when you think about it we only invest less than a third in education and so it really bears and stuff out here and teachers and ministers. I think we put them. Untenable and unfair position essentially reset you have to decide if you open or you don't you have to decide with less money. Can you open up and do the guidelines? you're not being given anything firm so you have to do so instead, it's what we advise you to do So imagine being a teacher or a principal and you see one school next door to you opening up three days a week and you look you know 15 minutes away. Another suburb is doing every day a week and then another one is a virtual that is really putting people who are already on the front lines doing amazing work to try to watch our children educate our children protect our children to make very difficult decisions and public policy matters and ah people need to hear from ah parents ah my children ah in these issues it's really important yeah and of course this pressure is going back on here in teachers are are saying you know the hidden figure out for themselves like how to buy out of their own pocket materials it could be helpful to support social distance and their individual classroom so you know I am thinking there is a parent being that sort of advocate Level, but then also Melissa to your point of just being supportive and understanding. I'm already seeing the comments and as our superintendent announces this thing and that I don't like this. That's not what I want for my child and their virtual experience and I can see the teachers you know having to take a lot of the blame for that when they are in such a tough situation, I mean we're gonna have to be flexible. well, I think when people are anxious, they are look for somebody to blame and teachers are the closest to them in a way they're they're the face. But it's not appropriate. It's not fair but it's under it. It's why that happens on one hand on the other hand I heard of a policy group somebody saying that one thing that's going to come out of this pandemic if we get through this and we will it is a greater appreciation for essential workers and a greater appreciation for teachers and I think most parents are recognizing having had to try to teach their. How incredibly difficult this is you know so it's sort of you know that they've locked in the teacher's shoes enough, perhaps that they can be a mobilization of support for you know what's happening Next? Yeah. I think that's what's pushing people to one on one hand, even though they're scared some instances feel as though they need to send their children to back to school because it's been very difficult to work at home to keep your job at the same time you have your. Around you to make sure you educate them and they do a lesson and are they doing the lesson and they're not doing less. You have to keep saying hold on and then their parents who don't have the luxury of being able to rural areas or urban areas of having broadband. you know access to being able to do work at home, so they have to go to work. so there's a lot of issues out there that we need to be keeping a friend of mine when we're talking about these issues. okay, I got to ask you guys about that DeWine press conference yesterday you think he this unprecedented Hess. I don't think he's ever done this before I had a press conference at 530 in the evening. I mean people were. In the views, online were three times as high as I've ever seen for any of the other press conferences. we're all on the edge of our seats wondering what big announcement is he going to make given that we are in this critical moment and boy did he address the critical moment that we're in but he announced nothing actually in terms of you know action like doing things and I think that a lot of people feeling well. I think the main reaction I heard was that's. Really, like that's it, you know and cuz we need. you folks to just like I need leadership so badly right now. So what was your reaction? Do you think anything is gonna change as a result of his address? or do you think we're headed for some changes? you know further precautions and locked downs coming. I mean what what's your reaction? what's gonna happen? For me, I think a couple of things one. This is what happens when we don't have Acton around the governor is really doing their. without the right person by his side to help him figure these things out and he's getting pressure from his other from his party about this, but I was hoping last night at the very least he would say I'm gonna make it everyone else to wear a mask. I thought at least at the very least he would say that especially for our schools open in another open, so I was really disappointed to see again, he said. We're in a tough situation and I just hope everyone does the right thing essentially and people are looking for way more. That when all around us and closing schools when they're mandating masks even Republican governors are doing that all over the country and so disappointed and also concerned because the next time you have a draft or people can even tune in because everyone was going there last night hoping to get answers and they didn't get them and it was a disappointing moment and he had done so well in the beginning. I just expected more. Yeah. How about you? Melissa I would say, did everything that Philip just said all day. I was getting text from our teachers and leaders across the state, saying what do you think the government is gonna say? what do you think the governor is gonna say, and it's just really was. disappointing that to basically hear nothing. I mean I I wish I wish that we could have poor people to wear mask and that's all it took but we know that not everybody does act out of the kindness of their hearts and and it's just it's just adds further to the frustration that we're all experiencing. that it's just. Just know guidance there on how we deal with this and again when the absence of Doctor Acton, I was such a huge delay such a huge fan of hers and I feel like we are on such a great trajectory and I was proud. you know I have relatives and colleagues all across the country and I was bragging all the time about you know how well we're doing in Ohio and how Doctor Acton is doing a great job leading us through this and now it just seems like the numbers keep going up, but the mandates keep going down and that's a little. that's that's just doesn't make a lot of sense. Yeah. okay. So. can we just talk for another second about Amy Acton? Okay. So I'm not wearing my T-shirt my fan girl T-shirt for her at the moment, but I do online. Okay so just to be clear on where I stand with you all on that. she wears it most. I've been having. Okay. So why do you all think her leadership was so significant and you know what does it say about what's missing? I mean, let's just name that she led. She's such an amazing communicator led the vulnerability, compassion empathy and you know kinda put science at the Center of things to that helped but one thing I've been thinking about Is there anything that are superintendents? let's say could learn from the leadership she exhibited right now, you know our our our. Tenants are just they're pressed into. I think we all know better than ever who they are and what you know what they're all about and I just do you have any thoughts on that and what we can learn from that right now. Well, I I I think I'm sorry that you go ahead. Oh well, you probably have more to say about this than I do cuz I'm just gonna go on the feeling side of it, which is any acting was like a really good parent. that really explained things she started where everybody was and led them on through and what we're missing when we talk about missing leadership is we're missing a good parent. And when you about superintendents, I think the superintendents that are stepping up and stepping in are really trying to be good leaders and it's amazing how a good parent lowers the anxiety of the children and it's amazing how a good leader will lower our anxiety and that's what Amy to do. That's what she always did. That's why we tune in to this press conference. It's like to just. okay, you know get that get reset like say okay. This is I can do this. I can I can do my three more days so Melissa. That's great because I'll just build on this one too, and it's the way and and and she, but she didn't sugarcoat things either right so she was able to use this calm demeanor to explain what's going on with to kinda give you hope that you know we can get through this. so that's what superintendents can learn from this is don't try to hide from the facts you know, use use science to use data to make your decisions but how calmly about it and? People that you know we are working on this and this is a plan that we have and then we will get through this together. The other piece I would add to that I think is superintendent can learn from us, not not necessarily specifically from Doctor Acton, but from the relationship between doctor Akin and Governor Dean at the time that Governor DeWine was willing to put himself aside to allow her to make some decisions and you included other people in that decision-making process. So that's what I really. The superintendents also is don't feel like you have to always be the face on all of this, but bring your teachers and bring community leaders and bring other people into this discussion and allow them to be a voice in this discussion Also so. The only thing I would add is in a very male-dominated, most of those to the stay very male dominated leadership there and it illustrated more than ever how important it is that female leadership at the table it plays a big part and that's missing right now and a lot of ways and we see that every day. Amen to that so true well and thank you for being one of the guys who gets it alright there is there's there's something else. I wanna make sure that we cover racial Justice in front of mind right now this has been. But you know focus for weeks now should've been long before, but we've had a huge wake-up call with the country focusing on the murder of George Floyd and so many others who have been lost to police violence in that way there is real concern and I think that we are hearing more about it right now because the there's no concern about the ways in which the pandemic can make it disparities and inequities that. Exist. and you know what I'll just ask for myself. How can I be someone who is not contributing to that problem? you know as a parent? you know most of your districts primarily White school districts Melissa. I'm sure this is this is been a hot topic among teachers. I'm worry about the achievement gap yawning even wider because of. This is just true across the board like all of the vulnerabilities in our systems disparities that are already exist like them getting worse. Is there anything that we can think about as parents in addition to everything we're trying to do and in terms of educating our kids on these issues yes, please I'm raising my hand you're right. Alright this is I don't have a big answer to that. but I think that that's a macro question about everything that's happening in the world and where we can be. It is in the Micro system. as parents as people in terms of how we help raise our children, how we expose them to the world. how we explain things that are happening how we explain things that have happened in history that within the family unit and within the classroom unit, you know you you start small the first the first community for a child is it's family and the next community is the extended family and then the next community is school and it's that. That I think is where everything is learned so there are things that can be done if you if you shrink it down instead of the whole world. So that's a that's a small answer to a big question. Yeah. So I'm looking on the micro and the macro on the micro I agree with Debbie wholeheartedly that's really the way to approach it one household at a time you're in the macro world. and I was gonna say, but I live in the macro world. so it's a couple of things. people can do one we introduced in the House side legislation to declare racism of public health crisis. I think that's a really important thing we saw teachers clergy guidance counselors you name it on the Senate side testifying we love to get a hearing on the House side. Why is that important? cuz all those things? Was having Co 19 the lack of access to the broadband to be able to get the education that you need and then the fact that you have to deal with on a daily basis, which really was captured in some of the moment in Minneapolis with George Floyd. there are things you can do in the macro level to try to advocate at the state local level on when you're just thinking about your neighborhood and community, it's a really important to try to connect communities and what I mean by that there are people in Appalachia who are going through the same thing as someone in the city city of the city of Cincinnati, are going through for lack of access and. We really wanna make fundamental change, It's mobilizing similar to what you're doing. what you're doing with Red White and blue. it's just bringing people together, saying there's a lot of commonality. Everyone has a role we all can mobilize together and make things happen. and that's really what we need to do and that is done neighborhood by neighborhood block by block going to make that. I'll just talk a little bit about what we're looking at as an Organization. first of all we we did testifying and support of racism as a public health issue and we talked a little bit about how that plays out in schools. one of the things we're looking at is really looking closely at our standards and making sure that you know we working with the Department of Education and even Legislature to say we need to teach a more honest. In our schools than what we've been teaching, but we're also looking at what kind of courses can develop ourselves and not only do with the history of it, but that how how do we talk about racism with our students and how do we raise an awareness of the inequitable treatment that a significant portion of our population is dealing with and how do we just create more awareness amongst our students and amongst our staff to be quite honest about I mean as as a staff, we're looking at doing a lot of anti racism. Training and things like that too, but if you think even on a parent level. educating yourselves around what all these inequities are, there are a lot of great books out there how to be an anti-racist is a great one to start with I think reading some of that yourself and trying to get a better understanding of why some of this is happening and what the history is behind a lot of this and then starting to have this conversations with your children about this and I know it's difficult I think about you know I'm a four -year-old grandson and he loves going downtown. He lives here. He always every time I figure out what's good and you know I one day I picked him up was right when the protest was starting and as soon as I picked him up, this announcement came out about an emergency downtown and he's still every time I see him even today, he says, he said emergency still going on downtown and it's hard to say how do you talk to you know four or five year old about what's happening? What's the appropriate amount of information to give but Do have to figure out what are those pieces that we feed the people and how do we build a bond that build upon that as our children get older well and what you're talking about is a conversation and I think it's always puzzling to adults because we have so many feelings about these things. How do we bring it to our children in a way that's useful and there are some things that are useful to know as a parent as a parent, One of them is you actually don't have to know what to say you will have to hear what they think. because then you know what to say so. Ask them What did you think that emergency was about? you already have the beginning of a conversation and this is a conversation that goes on through the whole life span of your family But it much of talking with children about these big things is hearing what they think and correcting a misconception or or or or miscommunication something they heard that they didn't understand So it's correcting the record, according to what their record is and the younger the child the. Stuff they are you hear really unusual and very young children, but if you hear it, then you can help them get it straight. So that's how you know how much to offer them because you're hearing what's what they've heard and what's on their mind. So that's that's particularly for parents of young children. but it's also true for the teenagers. you know who are hearing all kinds of things and the Internet is a great friend and a great enemy all in one. so I you know. My message here is that the conversation is an ongoing conversation, but it's about real things and I think parents are sometimes afraid to ask because they're afraid of what they'll hear and they're afraid of them. What do what do we say and I wanna say that child development is long very long. We have lots of chances to help them but children are really always struggling with the sense of right and wrong in a sense of themselves. Starting around three and four and up and they do have a sense of Justice and fairness inside themselves in a very huge sense sometimes harsh sense of right and wrong. That's part of the conversation. that's important and that will help them understand some of these global things from individual perspective such a helpful conversation and I hate that I have to wrap this up We are overtime. I no no no no you've all been so wonderful and helpful and we're so grateful for your time tonight out of respect for your time and everybody else's. we have to wrap it up. We did host a conversation right here at the people can hook up on Red White and Blues Facebook page about how to raise the kids with a woman who's who focuses on that as a science in parenting, writer and researcher who was amazing and gave us a lot of good practical language. We're doing that I encourage people to check that out too. In addition to that great advice so we are called Red White and blue because what women do when they've got a tough thing to tackle is like invite them. Over or maybe buy a zoo for that glass of wine or socially dist on your deck or porch and we get together and we talk about it and we hash it out and we navigate the hard things so you know I just wanna say as advertised. No magic answers here there are no perfect options and I'm I'm as I tell you all this. I'm telling myself and trying to just you know, take it all in but you know, let's just be there for each other and Thank. For being here for us tonight, I hope that everyone can walk away just feeling maybe a little better equipped as a parent as a family as a household as we navigate what are not the choices we want so good night everybody and thank you. Thank you Good night.