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standing ovation How about that? do you still get those in Silicon Valley? Yeah, you know. I'm excited to be here. It's good to see all of you are you excited to have Mark Zuckerberg and you draw. So first one in honor to have you here at Silicon Slopes Tech Summit in Utah. it means a lot to have you here. So thank you so much for being here. I'm excited to be here. Love Utah. I'm glad we were just building a big data Center here up in Eagle Rock really excited about that. It's it's like a billion- dollar project to Eagle Mountain, but that that's I just want you to know. that's why you got the response you got but little rock is Eagle Rock is awesome. You know my bad. Alright. Eagle Rock might be after a great start for a great start. So recently, you shared in a press conference that one of Facebook's focuses for the next decade is that it is more important to be understood, then be liked. We need to share what you meant by that. Yeah, I mean. Look, it's let's be real here. I'm not. I'm not like communicating is not my best thing right. you know I came out here. I've been planning for this. I'm excited about and then I messed up the name of our data Center within 30 seconds. So I mean look when when I got started with Facebook, I was 19 and and there are so many parts about building a company that I didn't know. I didn't. I didn't know anything about hiring or managing or building a company, and I certainly didn't really know. About you know how to communicate about what we were doing with the world. I mean, I'm I'm an engineer by training but I I I I love coding. I like building products that's that's kind of the background and you know my experience. you know kinda growing up and running the company is you know he went out talked about what we did say some stupid things get called out for it and get like kinda go into in into a shell right and and and end up being really cautious about how we communicate so. You know that it kind of worked out okay for a while for the company because now we we build products that a lot of people really like and you know we weren't winning because we're communicating well we were winning because the product is working well. I think in spite of the fact that we were communicating quite poorly about what we were doing, but broadly speaking for a long time the basic approach is okay. Let's try to not like do anything that's gonna be too offensive right and and we'll kind of explain what we're doing and broad strokes and talk about the mission of what we. Which is something that I really believe in helping to build community and bring people closer together, but you know, I think we we just shied away for a long time talking about some of the things that some of the principles that we believe in that that that are increasingly controversial in the world and I just think that we for one don't have that luxury anymore for two I I think that that kind of led for a while to a sentiment towards the company that was positive. Fairly shallow because if people if if if you're not kinda out there standing for things that that that people care about then you know, it's not possible for people to feel that strongly about what you're doing. But so now you know I I I've just I've tried to change our approach more recently. you know I went out and I in Georgetown last year, I gave this speech around our principles around free expression and you know that just one of the areas that I really feel like it's under attack right now. you know increasingly you know we're getting called to sensor a lot of different kind. Content That makes me really uncomfortable. I think that it kinda feels like the list of things that you're not allowed to say socially keeps on growing and and and I'm not really okay with that. I mean clearly they're they're definitely a lot of bad things that we need to go do our job and and help get rid of terrorism. child exploitation insightment to violence things that are gonna cause imminent physical harm and we invest a ton of this. So when we have 30 - 5000 people working on content and safety are our budget on safety at this point is bigger than the Company was when we went public in 2012 and we're pretty big company them where they were like a billion people using our services. so we're we're focusing a lot on that. but it's some point. I just felt like alright. We gotta stand up and say no we're gonna stand for free expression and yeah well, we're gonna take down the content that's really harmful, but the line needs to be held at some point. And I think that this this is just I think it's unfortunate that this is such a controversial thing. you know when when when I got started in 2004, it wasn't you know it wasn't a thing that that that people were pushing back on that much and you know, I think that there probably are a lot of people who agree with the principles on this and and and want companies to take more of a stand and make that case. and that's just one example, there are number of other things in a fighting for encryption. I think that that's a really important thing. you know a lot of people out there now are saying that you know tools. Privacy are only important to help bad guys. I don't believe that I think everyone you know this should be the norm. I think everyone should have these tools so this is gonna be this is I guess the new this is the new approach and I think it's gonna piss off a lot of people too, But you know, frankly, the the old approach is pissing off a lot of people too. So so let's let's try something different. So there is a lot of talk that yeah, please please. There is a lot of talk that social media leads to you know enhanced polarization in the world. How do you respond to that? Well? I think you gotta look at the data so first of all this is something that I care a lot about the mission of the company like I just said, is to help people build community and bring the world closer together. so Indiana. The last thing I want is for for our products to be used to divide people or or or kinda ripped. Apart in any kind of way and I think that this is gonna be studied for a long time both how we can develop the products to most effectively help people be open to hearing each other's story and and and and helping people come together and and and ways like that. that's a lot of what we care about. I think that we can continue to improve what we do to make it positive and more positive overtime, but you know some of the researchers now coming in on this and it it goes against the narrative that that I think a lot of people have that this mainstream narrative. there's this study you know this guy against. Out of Stanford just released this, this long study that he that he that he had on polarization effects across many different countries around the world and the finding is that while while social media is obviously a global phenomenon right and it's it's in pretty much every country and we're not we're not in China. we're on North Korea, but we're pretty much in every in every other country. that polarization is trending in very different directions in different places. while it's increasing in the US it is. And a lot of Europe, it is down in a lot of other countries. so if if if the main thing that we're driving polarization around the world were that now you're you're giving everyone a voice and that is somehow having this negative effect. Then it doesn't really make sense that you wouldn't see that uniformly everywhere. So that doesn't mean that there aren't some issues that we need to work with that. We need to work on and I'm certainly I really care about making sure that we get that right. but I do think that is the data starts to come in. It's refuting some of these. Mainstream narratives that weren't grounded in data in the past that hopefully people are open minded and willing to look at the data and aren't so wedded to their narratives about what technology and the Internet and social media and our company in particular are doing and that they'll they'll actually look at what would the data says on this. As you mentioned, you're you're a product guy at heart When you look at the next decade, What product innovations are you most looking forward to what product trans? are you excited about so? Three areas that that I'm really focused on how long do you wanna take on this question? Alright. So who wants to alright? let's I'll try. I'll try to keep it a little admitted for each. alright. The first big thing is I kinda think of you know in our in our social lives. We have like we have public spaces like town squares or public spaces like that, and we have private spaces like our our living rooms or you know other other Internet. Other private or intimate spaces and you know I think digitally we need both two and Facebook and Instagram have kind of evolved to be the digital equivalent of the town squares where you can interact with a lot of different people that you'd like and lots of different ways. you know you can stay connected with your friends and family. You can form groups and communities you can date you can start businesses. you can host fundraisers pretty like all the different types of things that you'd wanna do but when I look at our private social apps. Day There's still pretty much just texting and I think when you fast forward that's not gonna be how it is in the future. you know, I think we're gonna have private social platforms, which are as robust as the digital town square type social platforms that we have. but for all the different ways we wanna interact publicly small groups. you know, sharing location and private ways interacting with businesses one on one just being able to hang out right. I mean it's it's some of the stuff around video chat just making that you feel more and more present. you know. This this push towards delivering through technology the sense of intimacy is I think gonna be an increasingly important trend over the next five to 10 years. I know one way that I think about this is that you know one of the first superpowers that the Internet gave us was the ability to connect with anyone around the world, but it's very different from how a lot of us grew up right. It's I mean when I grew up, you know still long distance calls were prohibitively expensive to communicate with anyone outside in my town or city, and now we have access to everyone around the world. So that's awesome right now we're. Instead of growing up in a 10000 person town, we have a community of billions of people. We have access to all this great content, but I think part of that is a little disorienting too, and I think that we all kinda want a sense of intimacy and community and I I think that a lot of the next set of trends are gonna be around building social products that help build that as well. It's not that the the digital town squares are gonna go away. I think they'll keep on growing and and well, there's a lot more to do there as well. But but I think that the the intimate spaces are gonna be really important. So that's probably one of the big things that that that that I'm the most excited over the next period. I think there's a lot on Commerce that that's gonna be really exciting about empowering individuals right that's kinda what would I would? I think our company is about? is we wanna give every person a voice We want to empower individuals on the business side the way that we think about what we do is we serve about a hundred 40 million small businesses. The vast majority use our products for free I think it's about eight million advertise with us, so the vast majority are using it for free, but the way that we kinda think about what we do is that we want every small business or individual entrepreneur to have access to the same kind of sophisticated tools to reach people that historically only the big guys about access to and I just think that there's so much more to do on this in terms of building our tools are uncommon, Grace making its that people can have control over their money and assets and move it around and that's a lot of what is happening in the crypto space. I mean there's a lot of interesting stuff that can happen there We're we're you know wearing a lot of countries around the world. you know I kinda think that right now. a lot of the payments infrastructure has been build up very nationally, so you look at different countries and it's all you know a lot of it is very country specific. It's very hard to do Commerce or move money across borders and I know that can be a lot easier. So there's a lot of really exciting stuff to do there. do I have time for one more please alright. So probably the thing that I think is the craziest that that I think if we're gonna get in the next 10 years is. Real true augmented reality and and and kind of more mainstream virtual reality and the reason why I'm I'm so excited about this is because I don't know how many of you have used virtual reality or any any of the the the quest or the raft or or any of the stuff that we're we're building an awesome. Yeah. it's it's a quest is doing is doing quite well and I'm really excited about that and the community that's getting built up around it. So for those of you who've tried this. what you what you know is. The experience of virtual reality, what it really is is, it's delivering a feeling of presence right you feel like you're right there with another person or in another place, no matter where you actually are physically right. You could be playing Ping pong with someone halfway across the world. you know in the future we could be doing this interview and this could be like a hologram. You interviewing me right and I really think we're gonna we're gonna get that and that's gonna be way more powerful than just being able to make a phone call or a video chat. and and when you think about some of the stuff that that unlocks, I mean on the social side, that's like the Holy Grail of experiences of people connecting stuff that I just wanted to build for 15 years, but you know right now. we're cutting this box of building stuff on a phone instead of instead of actually getting to build stuff where people actually feel present but think about it for the economy right, it's today. so much of people's opportunity is tied to you know small number of cities that they may or may not wanna move to and then you you do move there and then. Housing is too expensive and infrastructures too congested, and it's like not that good. so why can it be the case that people can access any opportunity that they want living wherever they want well in a future where you can actually you know, wear normal-looking glasses and be present anywhere that you want to something like that should start to be possible. It shouldn't really matter where you live. You can live in a place that matches your values where your family is that has the community that you want and access the opportunities that you want in other places and I think that that's gonna be a huge thing for. Economic growth and for equalizing opportunity not just across the country but around the world. you know not to mention it should be good for the environment cuz it's a lot easier for us to move bits around than it is for us all to commute and move atoms. Alright. I'm done. that's great. That that actually brings up an interesting point and something I wanted to ask you if you were starting a company today. would you start it in Silicon Valley? No. No, it's it's not you should move to Eagle Mountain. You could start a company that I actually I I love you. Tom. I mean that's got to be like one of the most beautiful States seven. It's if I had a free weekend. This is you know anyway Now look at Silicon Valley has has a lot of there are lot of great things about it and there there are a lot of things that that that are not as good. but you know the reason why I moved out there when I when I got started with Facebook was because when I was, you know, I was 19. I didn't know anything about building a company at the time. A lot of the tools for building companies weren't is built out as they are now, you know, it's you know now you wanna reach people you know. Social media you want you need to spend up servers. You have AWS right. I mean it's back. then it was. It was a lot more complicated right and I mean I feel like like an old person back then it was but it's you know. Looking at the the the prospect of having to build our data centers and even leasing starting off and racking servers and doing all that stuff. you know a lot of the stuff around raising capital and we were kind of in a low economically at the time it just it felt like that was really gonna be impossible for someone who had no idea what they were doing and no no kind of experience doing all that stuff and I just think the world is in. Now, I think the infrastructure exists to be able to do this in more places and frankly, I think that there are a lot of advantages to building a company that are not in you know in such a monoculture which which which I think you know, Silicon Valley is being like in all tech town. you know, I think it's just there's you know not as much diversity of how people think about things is is is you'd like in a lot of ways. I think that there are. Advantages and the infrastructure in Silicon Valley hasn't caught up. I mean the housing is way behind and it's getting more congested. I think there are a lot of reasons why it would be stronger to to start something and in a different place at this point and you know I like the barrier. so I'm not. I'm not like Super negative on it, but I but I do think on balance If I were starting from scratch. now I I would not pick the Bay area. I have to ask you this do you feel like you're taking heat on behalf of the entire Internet. That's what leading is. I don't know I think we're certainly at the Center of a lot of issues and when I talk to you know my my peers and folks running other companies, they certainly feel like they're in have they have a lot of incoming as well. So I'm always very sensitive on this because you know it always feels very tough. You know whatever challenges you're dealing with feel very, you know they're they're very personal. They you feel that very acutely and then other people's challenges. It's easy to abstract away. so I I always think it's you need to be careful about about about kind of. The position that you're in compared to others but objectively I do think that you know, Silicon Valley or or the tech industry and and our company in particular are just at the Center of a lot of social issues and you know what what I think I think we have a responsibility to step up and make progress and a lot of these things. There are there are real questions that the Internet raises you know around the the Democratic process and the integrity there around free expression versus Around privacy and competition and well-being and all these things that I just I mean we need to get this right right and and I think a lot of this. It's not that any one company can get it right by themselves. I think we need it needs to be a broader approach, but it's gonna require government as well. but certainly I feel like we have a big responsibility on this. so I you know I I I just wanna make sure that we do the best that we can on this stuff and and we would just take it all Super seriously and weighs on us a lot. That's good. What our principles you've lived by as a founder, entrepreneur and of those principles, which ones do you wish you would have adopted much earlier. So there's a bunch of rules or curiosities that have developed around hiring, for example, that that I think have been helpful. I'm not sure if that's the type of thing they were asking about. but it's. The hardest thing for me early on was you know cuz I I I just started off as I was. I was an engineer or you know. I wasn't even really an engineer as a student right. It's I thought I was gonna be an engineer when I graduated and you know when you're when you're building something yourself, then you kinda have all the meetings in your head right. It's like you don't need to articulate the principles so clearly it's like you kinda can make all the trade-offs on on everything from architecture to product to marketing to you know just all these things in your. Just you have the context to trade this off and I think it's really easy when you when you start building something to to underestimate how much context you need to put out there and how clear you need to be about what you're trying to do so you know most of my mistakes early on and building the company were about not being clear enough internally about what we were trying to do and there's this very famous episode where we're like. 2006 a couple years into building the company Yahoo tried to buy us and they offered a ton of money and a lot of the people who who I've hired at the point. They were kind of experienced technology executives and this was like all of their startup Dream. come true right they they joined and then you know within you know a year or a few months like the the The company had the opportunity to exit for this large amount of money and you know I really failed through that period to communicate what we were trying to do and what we what we stood for. And in the absence of that that context, then, of course, it was a rational thing for people to think that this was like a good outcome for us to have and that was a really difficult period. That was actually you know the last the last few years have been challenging cuz we're there are there are so many social issues that were at the Center of the weed to help resolve, but that was actually the hardest period for me and running the court. Liana was harder than that. In 2006 and they're the reason I mean because literally I mean our the team fell apart right. I mean it was you know it's I turned down this offer to sell the company. the management team who are bunch of pretty experienced folks but who hasn't spent a lot of time working at Facebook weren't weren't that steeped in in what we were trying to do. you know that the group basically fell apart within within. I think it was 18 months after that every single other. On the management team either quit or it was just so dysfunctional that I had to fire them and in most of them quit and that was really challenging cuz I I I think I was like 20 - two at the time so again, it's like I was I just I I haven't learned you know most of the lessons that I have learned to this point on on managing but you know I kinda feel like when you have an internal team cohesion and you have a team that believes in something you can get a lot of things done and you can handle a lot of adversity but That when that starts to break down it becomes very hard to get things done and you know even so through the other big challenges that we've had to navigate over time. you know not just the last couple of years, but you know after we went public where we had a big business model challenge were transitioning from a desktop and web-based business to Mobile. our our app wasn't in in the space that I wanted to be. We didn't have ads in news feed yet, so we weren't sure if that was gonna work we went public in our market cap. In half in like within the first year and and people doubted whether we were gonna be able to make this transition to Mobile and you know empirically, that's not a crazy thing to doubt because a lot of technology companies basically die or really lose their weight during these big technology shifts right so of which going from Web to Mobile was certainly one but you know through that period, we were able to maintain very good team cohesion internally everyone had a strong sense of mission. They knew what we were there to do they believed in the product. they cared about connecting people and bringing the services to more people around the world. so it actually it didn't. That that challenging of a of a period in the Grand scheme of things you know not that many people quit people saw through the the the challenge that we needed to go that we needed to go do and we came out of that well but the internal team cohesion thing is a really big deal. I think that that's probably applicable to all the different companies that you're all working on and I'm sure you all have your own versions of these these stories but you know if you can be clear about the principles and make sure that the the team is is is aligned on that you can perform. Miracles and without that it just everything becomes so painful who are your mentors who do you call for advice? Well, I think that it's different people for different things. I've become more religious, really. yeah. I think that there's a. That's not really a mentorship thing, but it's but I do think that there's a scale. I don't know the last few years have been really humbling for me right. I'm not I I thought I like knew a lot about how to build something and. I think that there's just a comfort in knowing and having confidence that there are things that are bigger than you and I mean to me. That's what like giving people a mission is when when you're when you're building a company right it's and that's like why why talking about principles and and and laying that out so clearly is so important. I mean it's also why I mean, I have so much faith in democracy. Overall, that's why I care so much about giving people a voice right. It's you know I I I don't know I think it. Point in order to move forward given how complex modern society is and all the challenges that we face you have to believe in things that are bigger than yourself no matter what form that takes and so I mean I I mean I personally I mean I grew up. I'm I'm Jewish and you know I mean, so I grew up with that in that culture has been really important to me, but I mean, but certainly I think it's a combination of the challenges that we've been through as a company and and having kids right. So now, I'm gonna have two girls four and two and you know I just want them to grow up with with those traditions. So, yeah, anyhow probably that's kind of a different answer than you were probably expecting and maybe not even an answer to the question, but Bill sort of relevant. Yeah. that's that's incredible. You're religious. I love it. What can you teach us about creating mission and and values for a company? You've talked a lot about that already, but I mean how do you actually create a mission? How do you actually create values for a company? That means something? I don't know if you create them. So so early on someone gave him this advice that. I were talking about like values early on. It's like I think it's kinda corporate to write down values. I was really wrong about that. you really wanna be clear about what you stand for but I don't know maybe it's both corporate and you wanna be clear about where you stand for. but it's an. So someone gave me this advice, which was you have values so you better just write down what they are because if you write it like it's I mean I think companies write down sometimes what they want their values to be and then it's dissonant with what you actually believe and how you actually operate and part of building a company is trying to communicate to a group of people both internally and outside the company. What you know how you're gonna. So I kinda think what you need to do is is just write down and code in and try to encode that and capture that and and you you need to you need to be honest about it right and it's it's not like it shouldn't be you know some crap about how you wish you operated or some platitudes that should actually be how you operate and I also I guess in writing down values. I've always thought that there is this tendency to just write down platitudes right stuff that that no one really disagrees with right be honest. Okay. Yeah. Obviously you should be honest. Alright. everyone should be honest. if you're not gonna be honest, don't work at our company leave, but that's not really a trade-off. You're not like that you're not like giving something up to be honest. so that's not. I think that that's kinda hard to to kinda have. I mean that that that should be a given right, not one of the the things that that kind of defines the company is having a different culture. so you know, I think you want you want values that people can legitimately disagree with so inside our company. you know our values are things like move fast and be open. you know, ironically, I mean I'm. I'm up, you're talking about how you know the The external communication of the company hasn't been good over time and I think that that's true. but I think the internal communication since that Yahoo episode that I was talking about is actually been a strength of of kind of how we built up the the company and that's because at every step along the way we've aired on the side of being more open internally. you know we always I mean I do a Q and A with with all employees every week where not only will I answer pretty much any question that anyone has, but we go out of our way to get the heart. Questions we we built up new processes over time as the company is scaled so that way you know we people can now vote on the top questions that they wanna get answered. People can submit questions anonymously and then you know at the top of the Q and A I'll take the top five voted questions to make sure that I'm answering the hardest thing. So it's all these things kind of build up this culture inside the company where you're you're just really open about what's going on you answer the questions honestly and that sets a tone and of course it just makes information available to people broadly if they can ask me anything and it makes it so eyes. CEO can know what people are are honestly wondering about around the company, which is a valuable signal for me and running the company. Now that's not the only way to run a company. I think you can you can legitimately disagree with that right. I mean, like Apple, for example, is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum and they're obviously extremely successful too. Alright. So so be open. I think is something that one can disagree with but is how we operate. It's authentic to us and therefore I think it's a good articulation of a value. It's been valuable to write that down because that way is we've scaled we've been able to encode and build up more. Season tools to make sure that we can live up to that value at scale. so we've been talking a lot about at this conference over the past two days, Mental health and just the challenges of the loneliness of building a company of being an entrepreneur, the loneliest loneliness of being a founder. What it takes the fact that when you're building it, nobody cares what you're doing. you had a little bit different experience. a lot of people cared, but most people you know as they're growing a company at the very beginning, you know what I mean, it's very lonely and it leads to mental health. And there's also criticism that social media leads to mental health issues. How do you stay grounded? I think a lot of it is some of the stuff that well personally and I'll talk about the social media. Yeah talk about that in a second a minute I mean for me it's I think the answer to this is probably the answer you know. I can answer your mentorship question now, but it's but I think the the answer by the way I expected Bill Gates not God, but I'm glad I'm glad I got. I was not saying that God is a mentor that would be like the opposite of what I was trying to to get across and Bill Gates husband, especially on the philanthropy side he is he is. Huge role model both on how we built the company and as a model for me personally in terms of at once, you've built something that is successful. What are you supposed to do next and one of the main lessons that he taught me is you should start early right because philanthropy just like any other skill that you wanna build up it takes practice and you know if this is something that I wanna dedicate more of my time to in 1015 years, then you know we better start now and get practice on how that works. but no I mean I think you know part of staying grounded is like you know you you need. I think you need to understand the context that you operate in and you know work is important and you know a lot of you are doing really important things and you know I I hope that the stuff that we're doing has a positive impact and and has an important impact on people but but at the end of the day, you know we're all people and you know you you need you know your family and your friends and community is around you of of things that are interesting to you that are not just work and you know, I think we all need to feel like we're parts of things that are bigger than ourselves and I just think that that's important. And you know so my family and friends have been an incredibly important part of how I've stayed grounded but yeah and I do just think you know just managing your time. well, it's it's you know it's I mean you're you're all doing jobs where the reactive incoming in anything that anyone of us is doing could take all of our day and I think making sure that you just have the discipline to say no look, I I I'm gonna deal with a reactive stuff for this amount, but I need to spend a bunch of my time just on stuff that's gonna push the ball forward and Then, at some point you have to go home and yes stuff comes up and you don't always you know. I'm not trying to put my girls to bed every night and if some nights I don't get to. but generally like I'm I'm you know you you you wanna try to draw some boundaries so you can do that. that's that's important to me alright so. So it's so to the social media side of this maybe a little more. A little more concrete, but we've studied this a lot I mean cuz cuz obviously I want our products to to be good for people right and the the research on this is that like anything you know not all Internet use or social media use is the same if you're using products to stay connected with people and you're having meaningful interactions. then that is Associated with a lot of positive aspects of well-being right you, you feel more connected. you feel happier you feel less lonely over. That's correlated with you know, feeling healthier better outcomes there. but if if what you're doing is you know you're using the Internet or you know or even if you're just using our products to you know just scroll through content passively and you know it's just have have fun, but you know not not actually interact with people. It's not that that's bad. It just isn't Associated with the same positive aspects of well-being that connecting with people is so I just think what what. Company is about is giving people a voice helping people connect. It's it's that duality of those two things together and on the connection side, I just always wanna make sure that that stays front and Center so you know a couple years ago, we made some really big changes in our products that you know it was like one change and the changes were were designed to make sure that you know in Facebook and Instagram. you know the content that you're seeing is is generally gonna be about your friends things that are going to encourage interactions between people that are gonna be meaningful. we made. Single change that wiped out 50 million hours of viral video watching a day in order to prioritize more content from people's communities because you know if we showed the viral videos, people would spend more time in the products. but then at the end they would tell us. Hey, you know, I'm not necessarily getting from Facebook. What I want right. I know you guys are are the the company that's supposed to help me connect with people and you know there are lots of places. I go to watch videos. I come to you cuz I wanna help connect with people so yeah, I mean we we. Down the amount of usage and you know I think what was that it was a couple of months later we had. I think was the biggest stock drop in the history of the stock market. I think we lost like a hundred billion dollars in market cap in a day when we report so but I mean look it's you know. I think we're we're here to do good things in the world right. so I mean that's you know we're we're gonna we're gonna focus on on on what we think is going to deliver the best experience for people and and I think that that research is also you know it. it's. That also has map to how I think about my girls using let my daughter's using products. for example, like I'll let them do video chat with with their families because that's about connecting with people. I think that that's great, but in general, you know not as much of the you know just passive content consumption. you seem like a very intentional person and you know as you go about and I'm sure you had good intentions. you know and all the products you've launched and and purchased and you know launching Facebook and all these different things. How are you? how do you? Unintentional consequences. Well, I think this is probably been the biggest lesson of the last couple of years or a few years is you have to be more proactive right. so you know what I think about what we're doing you know either in terms of fighting different kinds of harmful content or things like that or or certain privacy issues, just because of where we came from as a company, we had a. We had it, We used to have a more reactive stance, which you know it made sense when when I was when I was a student in a dorm room right, it's you know people would post stuff and you know back. then we didn't have a business that could support having tens of thousands of people on a safety team and the AI technology hadn't evolved to the point where where you could meaningfully, you know, write a machine learning algorithm that that could identify some of the bad stuff. But at some point along the way that changed right, we're we're now. As possible for us to make those investments and the AI technology while it's not perfect yet and it's still requires a lot of investment to get to where we wanted to be you know now it. it is better to the point where we can do a lot more proactively. so as one example and I was talking before about like actually the truly bad types of content that you wanna get rid of like a terrorist propaganda for recruiting people. you know we built an AI system along with this counter terrorism team that we have in the company. Now, we we were able to flag and identify and take down you know it's 90 - nine percent of the terrorist content that we take down our systems get before anyone sees it on the service. So it's like someone post it down. And And so I kinda feel like once you have the ability to do stuff like that. You also have the responsibility to do that. and I mean I just think frankly we were a little late to that it. it wouldn't have been possible to do this stuff in 2012 when we went public right around that time, I mean again. it's like our whole budget on this stuff today is greater than our whole revenue was there so you know we couldn't have done back, then what we're doing now and the AI was not ready yet, but you know it's I think a lot of this stuff. We really started ramping up very seriously and in 2016 2017 and you know. I think maybe it should been possible starting in 2015 to get ahead of it and I mean you know this is important stuff. So do I wish we'd started a couple years earlier. Yeah. So that's the big lesson same thing on the privacy side with developers and in some of the the issues that we had like and this is this is the lesson from Cambridge Analytica right and so you had a developer who people gave access to the data and then the the developer turned around and sold the data was against our policies, but you know rather than waiting for someone to. We should have had systems that could proactively go and and and identify you know more suspicious behavior and now we built up a lot more of that stuff, but now for the next set of issues that are gonna come in the future. We're gonna judge ourselves by you know it's you obviously can't identify everything in advance, but are we thinking through what the unintended consequences might be and being more proactive about finding those issues? I do just think we have a responsibility to do that. We started this conversation. The idea that Facebook and something that you said that it's it's more important to be understood than light. What would you have us understand about you? Mark Zuckerberg. I don't know I think part of I think I'm I haven't been great about communicating about the company. I'm especially bad about communicating about myself. it's there's an awkwardness to it right. It's but I think probably the biggest misperception. You know I I hope this comes across but like I really care about what we're doing, but it's I mean the the decisions that were that were that we make when they're when they're controversial and it's like I didn't get into this because I was trying to build a business or sell a bunch of ads or make money. I happen to think that advertising is a great model so that way you can offer everyone a service for free because if you wanna give every single person in the world of voice, then you want people to be able to afford that. But like for me, this was this was never about About about kind of that side of things and I just think there there are. I think some people just assume that every company must only care about that about making money and so in any kind of policy or any decision must only be motivated by that or I think some people might just be kinda willfully ignoring kind of the obvious approach that we take for stuff in order to to smear us. but. I do just think in in in general you know this the principles around empowering individuals leveling the playing field, giving everyone a voice, not just the powerful people. The powerful people are always gonna have a voice right. It's I mean it's all always the people are criticizing and and saying that more stuff need to be censored or never the people who who are actually a risk of being censored themselves, but they have their ways of getting stuff out So I know I I kinda just feel like someone needs to stand up for giving everyone a voice someone needs to stand up for making sure that individual businesses do have the same tools and abilities that that larger businesses have because at the end of the day, I mean the way that we create an economy and a society that stable as you want Broad-based economic success that comes from small businesses everywhere succeeding not just a a handful of companies and you know by the way that's important for social cohesion too. Right. It's like I mean how many of the small businesses that people build our end up being kind of. The hubs in their communities that help bring people together in addition to supplying jobs right so that needs to happen. so I don't know that that's that's like that's me. That's what I care about all of it. So that this is my last question for you cuz cuz I know you have to go. you're young. We're actually very close to the same age. our lives are quite a bit different. I did recently you know paid off my student loans last month. Congratulations. But I wonder if you think about even though you are young if you think about what you want your legacy to be. What would you want your legacy to be? I mean what would I what I just talked about? I mean it's I mean I I do believe that a lot of the debates that are being had right now around like I mean people are really questioning in a fundamental level is giving people a voice good and I believe that there is a pendulum that is swinging in the pendulum will go back in the other direction towards voice and free expression, and I hope that I can play a part in that and. And similarly, I think in terms of individuals connecting you know, I think right now for a while when we got started, I think that there was there's a period where you know there's more positive, press and coverage than anyone ever deserved. So so I think to some degree all all the scrutiny I think is is fair now is as well, but but I think people really have turned from thinking that tools that help people connect is gonna be a powerful thing and positive for our communities. positive for social cohesion and democracy, and I think The pendulum is swinging there too, but I really I think that the the the formula throughout history has been that empowering individuals more voice more connection between people. that's you build strong communities and that's how we make progress together and if we can do this around the world. I don't know I think it's gonna it will hopefully lead to more prosperity and people being living more fulfilling lives everywhere and if we can be a part of that. That's that's kinda what I would. I would. I hope to do. Thank you so much for coming to each other ladies and gentlemen Mark Zuckerberg excellent.